Rusty Brake Lines Question
 

How hard and expensive is it to fabricate new brake lines? The rear lines on my LeSabre are flaking rust instead of steel. And is it better to use longer runs of line, or more standard lengths?

It's something I'm kinda concerned over since popping a brake line is most definitely a safety issue. I've already had to replace the fuel sender because of a leak caused by rust.

Make sure you get the PVF-coated brake line, rather than the cheap stuff that will rust out again in a few years.

For me, it's been "Oh, the pedal went down further. I have to fix this tonight or take the bicycle to work tomorrow." I don't mind the bike in fair weather, and I don't fix my brake lines until they fail.

Lesabre? even the FWD ones do have big brake system, you could go longer lines slightly. analyze the old injury (rust is an injury due to error...stick to that and a decent car can emerge- always always always a weakness in structure somewhere nearby...), I did this for several vehicles, if it is a gear driven rear end or a lively lightweight wiggler due to FWD, there is always a spot to target in the brake lines in the back. I choose longer, even on a little subaru with its tiny master cylinder, it just needs more discipline in bleeding. you can buy sections and a pipe flanger all so cheap. that is another thought to ponder...intentional breaks in long runs with a connector, is actually the forgiveness that may be needed to insure longer duration.

Wow, you guys are great! I'll have to look into this more.

Since nobody's telling me it's a killer, I'll look into doing this when a free weekend permits. It makes me feel a bit safer knowing there is new line instead of rust.

@99LeCouch:

I don't know what your calipers are like on the LeSabre, but since you're going to be playing around with the brakes anyway, I thought I'd mention: it is a popular mod for people with turn-of-the-century "W" Bodies (Grand Prixs, Regals, and Impalas,) to replace it with 2002 F-Body (Camaro/Firebird) calipers that are both bigger and weigh less (b/c they're aluminum).

This is the how-to: ClubGP Message Forum troubleshooting

Again, not sure it'll work with the LeSabre, just thought I'd mention it though.

jkp, it's been done before with lots of work. I'd have to swap knuckles to W-body knuckles since my calipers are completely different from W-body calipers. And W-bodies have rear disc, my H-body has rear drum. That's not getting into the struts and stuff either.

It's a good idea, just not something I'm interested in pursuing with this car. Maybe another, newer LeSabre.

I appreciate the mention, though!

to make it easy take both fittings from the line and an overall measurement in when you go to the parts store. there are different threads and most parts store cant look them up. some even GMs have metric threads and even bubble flares.

So if you lose brake pedal pressure and are leaking fluid, you probably have a rusted or broken brake line. It's a common problem on older vehicles that The first thing you need to do is have the proper tools. There are 2 popular types of brake line fittings. There are "bubble flare" and "double flare" lines and some vehicles will even use both types. I own both kits, but you can get away with just getting a "double flare" line kit.................

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3...f/linez013.jpg

You will also need a small tubing cutter..................

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3...f/linez012.jpg

After you locate your leak, you must determine if you can replace just the section that is bad or the entire line. Sometimes you can get lucky and replace a line from the master cylinder to the rear proportioning valve with careful measurements and a union or two and no flare tool is needed. When you locate your leak and have good line in front, you can cut the line in the good portion of line and carefully bend it down so you can flare it.

These images are kinda blurry, but oh well. I am demonstrating the repair on the bench, but this can be done on the vehicle. The most popular size line is 3/16" line and that is what we will be using. Cut your line with a tubing cutter and use sandpaper to clean up the cut. Slide over the fitting before you flare the line and clamp it in the holding tool so the the line end is level with the first lip on the crusher.....................

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3...f/linez015.jpg

Place the crusher nipple into the line like so.............

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3...f/linez017.jpg

Install the clamp and crank the clamp down until it stops..........

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3...f/linez018.jpg

Remove the clamp and then remove the crusher. This should have rounded the edges of the line...

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3...f/linez019.jpg

Now install the clamp without the crusher and get the pointed tip centered in the line. Clamp it down until it stops...............

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3...f/linez020.jpg

Now you have a flared line end where you can install a union and then the new line.........

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3...f/linez023.jpg

Run the new line along the frame and secure it where possible so they do not rub........

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3...f/linez025.jpg

If there are proportioning valves in line, you must save them.........

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3...f/linez024.jpg

I hope this helps anyone interested in saving expensive labor dollars for line repairs.

I would recommend just buying the premade lengths, because I've heard that trying to flare the lines can be a pain in the ass, and sometimes doesn't work that well. The only issue with the premade ones is that they'll probably be too long, but you can just bend the lines a little more to take up the space.

I think most auto parts stores sell them by the foot, up to 5 foot lengths. Get more than you need, you can always return the extra ones if you don't use them.

If you end up doing a lot of brake lines, buying the flaring tools will probably be worth it, but for a one time thing, the premade ones will work out, since you don't have to worry about flaring them properly. Just bring the old line connection to the store to make sure you get the right one.

No problem. And I am surprised to learn that they were still using rear drum brakes in the LeSabre as late as '99. I thought my '95 Beretta was one of the last holdouts (at least for cars.)

Good idea to take the old fittings to the parts store. All my cars use 4 different fittings at the master cylinder. One is std metric line, the other 3 require adapters. Also you might have to look around. The only store in my area that is worthwhile for brake lines and fittings is the local Auto Value. All of the other stores are pretty sparse on fittings and knowledge.

One thing I would do when installing the new lines is try to isolate them from the frame/body as much as you can. Use a chunk of rubber hose or something. Otherwise the new line will start rusting out at the contact point, while the rest of the line will be just fine.

I just use premade lengths. It is easy to form with my fingers. Measure well before going to the store, so you know just how much you need, then you don't end up with a bunch of extra to take up with funny bends and loops.

I think the factory makes them this way to make the assembly line more idiot proof.

Never underestimate the ability of an idiot to screw things up! I once bought a 57 Chevy parts car and when I pulled the motor I found that whoever put the pressure plate in put it in backwards so the springs hit the heads of the flywheel bolts. It was then driven that way for some time since the flywheel bolts had a groove worn into them and those aren't soft bolts!

If you're not buying lines made specifically for your car, you will probably need to bend the new lines. (Check to see if there are any bends.) I strongly recommend a real tubing bender to replicate the bends, because it is less likely to crush the tubing than most other DIY methods.

-soD

Yea, they're not hard to bend. Bend it around something cylindrical, like a paint can or something, to make sure you don't crush it.

Well, it popped a brake line. The right rear. PITA. Fortunately this happened at home, not when out. I don't have time to diddle with it so I'm taking it to a shop open tomorrow, which is a rarity for down here. I don't have the time or patience right now to diddle with brake lines or bleeding them, so off to the shop she goes.

its not a huge job, just get the car up high...like two or three feet
 

I had the same problem in Jan. and i just cut some longer pieces of 14 inch oak and stook them up under the jacking points. replaced ALL the line. You can gat it in rolls from O'rielly auto parts or most parts stores. get all new fittings, a tubing cutter and a flare tool. The olds used double and bubble flare on the tubing. I also bought a bender and it came in handy but i needed hands in gloves for the tighter complex bends. Actually i had to wear gloves the entire time because i was on cement and it was about 0 F out!!!!!(stiff line) Check your brakes and fuel lines while you are at it, I had to replace mine because a rusty hole spilled gas....then i found the bad brake lines.....have fun...

Yep, the rears are on the docket. Along with the bad sections of fuel line. I suspect the car will run a lot better when it has new fuel and brake lines.

I'm thinking I want to buy a lot of shorter sections to reduce the amount I have to flare since I've never flared line before, and learning on the job doesn't sound like much fun.

just remember the more fittings you use the more chances and places you provide
 

for RUST and leaks....I only had to flare 10 ends...4 for the M.C., 2 for the front, 2 for the back, and 4 for the P.V.s ....no, wait...4...2...2...4.......12? yeah, 12 fittings.