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-   -   Second-gen Stop-Start technology coming 2013 (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/second-gen-stop-start-technology-coming-2013-a-13592.html)

NeilBlanchard 06-17-2010 11:30 AM

Second-gen Stop-Start technology coming 2013
 
I think Stop-Start tech should be required on all ICE powered cars within a year or two.

Valeo's second-gen stop-start technology coming to 1M diesel Peugeots, CitroŽns by 2013 — Autoblog Green

http://www.blogcdn.com/green.autoblo...artsschema.jpg

Daox 06-17-2010 11:34 AM

Too bad the EPA testing doesn't show any time stopped idling. This really is the reason we don't have start/stop here yet. I think Darin posted something a while ago about this and Nissan commenting on the EPA testing.

Piwoslaw 06-17-2010 02:36 PM

I can't wait for someone to hack it for ecomodder use: manually adjustable kick-in speed. Tailor it your own P&G needs.
Quote:

Best of all, this stop-start system could be easily adapted to almost any powertrain combo out there as a quick, relatively cheap way to increase fuel efficiency.
Could that mean retrofittable?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daox (Post 179446)
Too bad the EPA testing doesn't show any time stopped idling. This really is the reason we don't have start/stop here yet. I think Darin posted something a while ago about this and Nissan commenting on the EPA testing.

I'd like to read that. Do you remember the link? I couldn't find it.

Xringer 06-17-2010 03:05 PM

Yeah, I hope someone makes a add-on i-StARS type kit for the Fords..
Could really help out with city driving.. (Which is about 90% of my driving these days).

Buying that i-StARS equipped car is sure to invoke Murphy's Law to insure
that you never hit another long red light again.. :rolleyes:

Nevyn 06-17-2010 03:08 PM

And would that be such a bad thing? :D :D :D

PaleMelanesian 06-17-2010 03:18 PM

Here it is:
Mazda: EPA Test Keeps Stop-Start Out | The Truth About Cars

Piwoslaw 06-17-2010 03:23 PM

Here's a little bit more info
Valeo sets hybrid stop-start solutions

Xringer 06-17-2010 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaleMelanesian (Post 179474)


Wow! That's a lot of reading when you follow the links..
Some very interesting comments about the technology and,
the politics of the technology.

One commenter noted that if the EPA tested with real-life stops
embedded in the MPG tests, Honda and Prius type hybrids would rule,
since they use zero fuel while stopped.. (I guess the same is true of the Ford hybrids).

To do it right, you need to dump the small starter and alternator,
for a larger more robust motor-generator system. Hence the price tag.
Not really a cheap retrofit path for the older cars..

I guess maybe I'll keep doing it the old fashion way.. Just drive less.. :thumbup:

RobertSmalls 06-17-2010 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard (Post 179445)

Three cables leaving the alternator and running to a gizmo with a giant heatsink... it's a three-phase AC motor with its own inverter. Same setup I've got in my car, but on a different scale. Also, I presume their inverter is 12V, thus saving the expense of a second battery.

As far as a DIY retrofit, I'm sure you could fit it to any car that has a big enough 12V battery. I assume this system does "regenerative alternatoring": charging your battery at a few hundred amps while you brake.

Just wait for someone to crash a car that has this system, then tell the U-pull that you're there to buy an alternator for your Peugeot. $15 later, you have MHYGALE (Mild HYbrid GenerALisablE).

Piwoslaw 06-18-2010 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertSmalls (Post 179529)
Just wait for someone to crash a car that has this system, then tell the U-pull that you're there to buy an alternator for your Peugeot. $15 later, you have MHYGALE (Mild HYbrid GenerALisablE).

Oh man, you're onto my scheme!

davidgrey50 06-18-2010 02:26 PM

There was an article in Road & Track way back (c. 1973/1975?) about Toyota's 'Engine Automatic Stop-Start System'. When the car stopped for more than a second or two the engine turned off, re-starting automatically (If I recall correctly) when the foot came off the brake. The demonstrator (IIRC again) was a Corona.

And then Toyota spends an entire generation beavering away on this and myriad other technologies and we got the Prius. Almost like they knew the future was coming someday.

cfg83 06-18-2010 03:33 PM

davidgrey50 -

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidgrey50 (Post 179623)
There was an article in Road & Track way back (c. 1973/1975?) about Toyota's 'Engine Automatic Stop-Start System'. When the car stopped for more than a second or two the engine turned off, re-starting automatically (If I recall correctly) when the foot came off the brake. The demonstrator (IIRC again) was a Corona.

And then Toyota spends an entire generation beavering away on this and myriad other technologies and we got the Prius. Almost like they knew the future was coming someday.

I read that Toyota made the Prius as a reaction to the American PNGV program. The Big-3 achieved great MPG *concept* cars and then abandoned the technology. GM created the 80 mpg Precept, Ford created the 72 mpg Prodigy, and Chrysler created the 72 mpg ESX-3 :
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...px-ESX3_sm.jpg
Toyota and Honda created hybrids out of *fear* that we were going to pass them by. Shame on us.

CarloSW2

davidgrey50 06-18-2010 04:50 PM

Which goes to show the creative value of paranoia. Or obsessiveness. Or something.

cfg83 06-18-2010 06:04 PM

davidgrey50 -

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidgrey50 (Post 179644)
Which goes to show the creative value of paranoia. Or obsessiveness. Or something.

You got that right.

CarloSW2

Piwoslaw 12-26-2010 12:12 PM

It appears that a few months ago CitroŽn started selling cars (C3 and C4 Grand Picasso) with the second generation stop-start system mated to the 1.6 liter HDi engine. Here is some info on it:

Press information on PSA's e-HDi

EDIT:
Here are two interesting things about this Stop-Start set-up:
  • Quote:

    The StARS starter alternator is a synchronous machine using three-phase current. The rectification of the alternator current to battery current (AC/DC) is realized with so-called field-effect transistors instead of diodes, which gives an excellent efficiency at >77% (VDA measurement), or 10 points higher than a traditional alternator and thus allows additional fuel savings, independently from the engine stop phases.
    If only all alternators used field-effect transistors instead of diodes...
  • Quote:

    E-Booster system with 5 volts of stored super capacity power and power electronics, to:
    - Boosts the battery to drive the reversible alternator at start.
    - Support vehicle electrical voltage at start.
    So an ultracap gives the starter a kick while keeping electronics from dimming, but also helps capture more energy from regenerative braking. See also:
    Green Car Congress - Continental Supplying Maxwell Ultracapacitor Booster Modules to PSA for Second-Generation Start-Stop Systems


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