Shenzhen Songi electric bicycle from China
 

Just got one. Everything is in Chinese so the instructions and instrumentation aren't helping. It has a remote key fob with several buttons on it. Press 'em and a female voice says things in Chinese. I have no clue what they are but I like it!

Just plugged in the battery pack (pack says 60v while chassis says 48v- upgraded?). It has a direct drive hub motor in the rear wheel. The pedals have one "gear". Charger is supposed to run on 220v but it has a 110v style plug. Am running it through a "foreign power inverter"; inverter takes 110v, converts to 220v, and the charger fits into the inverter. Well, nothing blew up yet but there is one red and one blinking red/green light on it. Am assuming blinking means it's taking a charge and when it turns green it's charged? Eventually want to get/make proper plug to go directly to my 220v service.

Looks kinda like this:

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...e_Parts_06.jpg

The rear passenger seat/rack and side racks look clever and useful. Gonna hafta fab something like them up for my bicycles and motorcycles!

This is going to be interesting. I'd just recently developed an interest in electric vehicles and decided to start small, fire up the learning curve, maybe progress to cars?

I look forward to hearing how this goes.
I've been looking more and more into electric assist the past few days.
I can't see your photo at work since the server blocks image hosting websites.
I'll look it up.

:)

Frank -

Cool. It looks like it has a pedal "limp mode", yes? Here's a dumb question. Can it go up hills? I ask because this may be a good fit for where we live (not too steep, but lonngggggg grades). How much does it weigh?

CarloSW2

I haven't ridden it yet. Near as I can tell the bike weighs 95 lbs w/o battery pack (very awkward to use a digi bathroom scale for this...) so 147.5 lbs total.

Looks like maybe it isn't going to be a smooth plug-n-play operation. Batt pack decal SAYS 60v; it's been on the charger 24 hours and the red/green LED never went solid green, and it's only up to 35v, sooo.... might have a problem? Cracked open the battery box (52.5 lbs) and found (5) 6-DZM-12 batteries.

There are no glaring physical defects and the batt cables are very firmly attached so I'm not inclined to disturb them just yet to check the batteries individually (well OK. I did try to get one cable off and it didn't come easily so for once I decided to stop before breakage occurred :rolleyes: ). Was just going to throw the charger on it longer but now think I may have already overcharged. The thing to do is simply put the pack on the bike and see what it does I guess.

It does have functioning pedals, although I'm sure this thing would be a total slug compared to pedalling a normal bike. It's way too small for this big galloot to get proper pedalling ergos- and there's the little matter of the extra 114 lbs vs my trusty old Fuji- but just sitting there passively riding should be just fine. My guess is the pedals are mainly useful as a range extender- use 'em to help on accel and up hills and the battery pack thanks you very much and rewards you with much longer range.

Plugging a 220v charger into a 110v outlet won't kill it (however the inverse would). And all of the Chinese chargers I've used accept both 110vac and 220vac so you may not even need the step down inverter. If you're not happy with the included charger tncscooters.com has a nice 60 volt charger for $50.
http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=101155
Just double check the polarity of it against the charger your scooter came with to confirm that the pinout matches.

A good NEW 60v pack should still be reading at 55v total or better. And your batteries will have to be 12volt each in order to make a 60volt pack.
Check each one with a multimeter if you can get to them.

The blinking red/green is probably indicating a float charge rather than a high current charge.

Well at least the learning curve isn't negative so far.

It is a 60v pack, five 12v batts. The 110/220 inverter was the problem. Oh, it worked, just not well enough. Made an adapter cord out of an old 220 dryer cord, an outlet box, and an outlet. Outstanding- it works! Full charge in about an hour. Installed the pack and the wheel spins when it's up on the centerstand! Progress!

Test drive: has four speeds, sure seems faster than 18 mph. Am lost as to best operating methods and of course haven't figured out all the controls either.

Why not gut the powertrain and battery from that bike and put them on a recumbent, preferably one with at least a Zipper fairing? Mo better.

Or, go whole hog and put the guts into a Battle Mountain-style HPV fairing?

The thought of transplanting the motorhub, battpack, and controls onto my aluminum framed full-suspension ATB has crossed my mind...

It would be 50 lbs lighter, have good pedalling ergos, have 18 pedalling speeds vs 1, have full suspension...

Frank -

That's neat. With planning you could have a running bike while you take your time building up the new frame.

Didn't you go to to an "E-vehicle" club meeting one time? You could bring the bike and let them give you their running commentary.

CarloSW2

Well I guess they really didn't want me to pedal it. Wanted to get out into traffic and stood on the crank, bending it. Not up to good ol American torque I guess.

It's fast though. Need to clock it, but it feels like 25, maybe 30 mph.

Frank,
Sounds like the pedals are there just for looks. Without the pedals it's probably considered a scooter and would need some sort of licensing. If I remember the laws correctly, the Federal speed for considering it a bicycle is 24 mph. Here in CA, the speed is 20mph. Anything above that can get you a speeding ticket. I've been fortunate enough to have been clocked at no more than 18mph so far.
I always thought it humorous that I can actually legally ride my regular bikes faster than my electric.
JJ

I'm getting the gist of this thing now.

There are two ways to activate the electric motor; one is with the twist grip throttle, and the other is to pedal for about 2 or 3 seconds; there is a sensor that notices the pedalling and kicks the motor on.

I like the idea of starting off by pedalling til the motor kicks in; starting out is probably the biggest amp draw so that little bit of pedalling (and having the motor kick in after it has the rolling start) could be conserving the juice quite a bit. I use the twist grip after that for cruise.

Also I took it up a steep hill today and pedalled even though I didn't have to- again, "hypermiling" the batt pack. If only pedalling a regular bike up that hill was so easy! I went several miles and the indicator still said full charge when I got home.

I've found that "1st gear" on the electric controller is pretty much as fast as I need/want to go around here. Staying in 1st has gotta extend the range vs. using the higher "gears" (remember, the motor is in the hub so no real gears). When I come to a rise and if I'm going slow enough, I'll pedal to help out- more hypermiling. But it's a fixie and the pedalling gear is pretty low. I need to look and see if a larger chainwheel can be fitted, or maybe even a sprocket cluster and derailleur, because I would like to "help out" with the pedalling more than it allows me to now.

I've used it for grocery shopping several times. The basket and racks are nice for that. Very handy!

I've decided it wouldn't be wise to use it's bits to electrify my ATB. That would ruin the value of it. Better to get other motor/batts for that project.

cf: Wasn't me that went to any EV meeting...

One solution is to build a bike that can only operate in hybrid mode. Use a HSD transmission so power can be accurately measured. Then have a knob to adjust the "virtual gear ratio" and a knob to adjust the "power split ratio". ("Power split ratio" refers to how hard the batteries can work. For example, it could be set so the batteries can supply as much as 10x the power supplied through the pedals.) It can then be allowed to go faster than 20MPH since it would be a pure hybrid - don't pedal and it will not accelerate at all. You can say it's just a bike with an electronically controlled CVT.

And what would happen if you coast downhill faster than 20MPH? Moreover, would a ticket even be valid if the bike does not have any instrumentation for measuring speed?

Frank -

Ha ha, "virtual gearing" ala digital zoom on cameras. I will keep that in mind. We are "E-Bike" distance to a grocery store, so that would be a plus. The EV meeting was old memory for me, so I "congealed" as your experience (stupid brain!).

CarloSW2

Let me clarify. The speeds I quoted are on a level surface with both the electric and human powered motors activated.
As for the ticket being valid without having instrumentation, try gettng caught doing 80mph in a car and blame it on no speedo.
JJ

I think it's different since I believe speedometers are required by law on cars (or at least standard equipment) but there are plenty of hybrid and electric bikes, as well as just normal bikes, that do not have speedometers.

Since the restriction is only for level surfaces, add a sensor to limit it only on level surfaces.

Cool bike. I wish I didnt sell my electric bike now.

One thing I noticed on different electric bikes was the placement of the controller. Some cooled nicely as they were exposed to windage, and some were tucked away and got too hot. Should be an easy mod to make sure they keep cool. Usually there is a overload switch somewhere to prevent burnout too.

One way to check your batts for the future is to put a voltmeter across each batt, place the front wheel up to a wall, sit on the bike and open the twist grip. Do this briefly and watch for volt drop, moving through all the batts individually. 11.8v is probably a good cut off for a failing battery

Thanks for the battery test suggestion! :thumbup:

I did overload the controller once by flipping through the "gears" without letting up on the "throttle". Had to pedal the dang thing until things cooled off enough for it to kick back on. No harm done though. Note to self: release throttle when changing "gears". While that is the only time I've overheated anything, should it happen again when it isn't my fault I will look into the cooling situation. The controller is completely enclosed in bodywork now.

I want to fit it with a bicycle computer as there is no speedo/odo, but none of the stock mounting points fit. I will have to fab up my own. When I have access to that data I want to track miles, time, and speed vs battery drain. For example yesterday I started with a 100% charge, went 4 or 5 miles (?) then it took 2 hours to top off the batt pack when I got home. That inverse relationship of riding time vs fuelling time is the biggest thing to adjust to re: electrics for me.

Pics:

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...encher/004.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...encher/005.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...encher/006.jpg
LOVE the fold-out racks!

Hi, i got the same bycycle as frank lee and same problem with power can some one please help me .what kind a converter do i need to charge this electric bycycle here in newyork PLEASE HELP ME.thanks

Holy abandoned thread Batman! Has it been 3 years already? Really? :eek:

I love this thing and I ride it almost every chance I get. I don't park it in the fall until we get below freezing temps or the streets are icy/salty, whichever occurs first. They practically canceled winter this year so I got an early start on this years riding season! :thumbup:

It has sealed lead acid batteries so the performance loss in cold temps is really noticeable. That could be largely avoided by bringing the batt pack in to keep warm (it is easily removable), but I simply park it at that point.

Clocked it against a car and another motorcycle; they both say it goes 26 mph. I haven't noticed any cops giving it any special attention, even when I go down the nearest 2-lane highway. Surprisingly, I've gotten thumbs-up from occupants of ginormous SUVs, and questions about if I'd sell it, or where to get one. Who'da thunk that? Everyone seems to like that hubmotor- I sure do.

I've taken to charging it with plain ol' 110v- the charger can be fed 110 or 220. The 220 is much faster, but due to outlet access the 110 is much more user-friendly. (Sorry Jeff, I didn't see your post back then!)

Mods? Oh yeah, just not the ones I initially thought. Still no speed/miles instrumentation. Guess I don't care that much- I know how far and how fast it'll go.

The cool rack has been deleted in favor of a modified banana seat. That rack weighed 26 lbs! vs the lil bike seat which weighs almost nothing. I liked that rack but changed it out in favor of the seat to 1) take that weight off, and 2) sit down over a foot lower to make my carcass a bit more streamlined and much more comfortable as well. Pedaling it was a joke anyway so I've abandoned any pretense of having the ergos to do significant pedaling; now I sit down in there chopper style. I went with a rear "bodywork" delete at the same time, but the rear fender remains.

During an "experiment" to see if rolling resistance would be reduced by swapping out the front wheel for a 24" MTB wheel, I mounted the bike wheel and simply disconnected the front drum brake and went brakeless on the front... where I then discovered that this thing has regen braking! :eek: I pulled the front brake lever- who's cable is now dangling in space- and it still slowed to a stop! Cool. It's very nice to have but coasting to a stop is still better when possible.

I've not done a proper test to quantify the r.r. but that bike wheel swap is definitely a keeper, if only because it transformed the rather heavy, dead feel of the stock steering to a very noticeably different lively, light, and responsive feel. IIRC that was another 10 lb. loss.

I've read (on Allert's site) that bicycle tires quite likely have half the r.r. than 17" scooter tires. I believe it but have no data to confirm.

Once committed to that wheel, the knobby tire was sent packing in favor of a new Schwalbe high pressure street tire. Adapters were also fabbed up to remount the front fender a bit "further away" so it clears the much taller tire. Too bad switching the rear would be such a chore.

As Ferris Bueller sez, "If you have the means, I highly recommend one!" :thumbup: