Shift Points: Should I Install a New Transmission?
 

Hiya folks. Does anybody know of a good way to detect shift points on a E100 series Toyota Corolla? Mine is a 3-spd, (A131L transmission) but the damn thing shifts so smooth I can't tell when I'm in third, and I can't tell what RPM I'm at to try to guestimate what my highway speed should be. And please don't tell me to buy a Scangauge II or something. I paid $150 for the entire car, which I bought to save money, and $150 is a lot of fuel in such a small car (over 1666 miles at current gas prices and my current tank average with the few mods I've done). Thanks for your input.

I'm going to tell you to buy a used Scangauge or Ultragauge.

Step 2: use it for a couple of months to learn more about your car, and more importantly to fine-tune your driving. (Don't underestimate the value of instant & resettable trip feedback.)

Step 3: re-sell it for what you paid for it (or close to it). In a car getting ~35 mpg, I guarantee it will pay for itself if it ends up "costing" you 20 bucks difference.

And... welcome to the forum!

Ditto.

I won't tell you to buy a ScanGauge. Others will, but I'm not here to sell you one.

I'm assuming you have an automatic transmission, and that your car has a tachometer in the dash.

Accelerate moderately briskly and look at the tach. You will notice a drop in RPM's every time the transmission does an upshift. Typically such shifts occur at approximately 10, 20 and 30 MPH on a four speed tranny. On a three speed it might be that 0-10 is first gear, 10-25 is second gear. and 25-35 is third gear. You may notice a fourth "shift" occurring around 35-40 MPH. That's the torque converter locking up, which will feel and act just like a shift, even though it's only a three speed transmission.

Any and all automatic transmissions achieve their best fuel economy by entering torque converter lockup and staying at that speed or above the speed of entry into it without falling below it. All you need do is to recognize that and try to keep it at or above that speed, if possible. Watching the tachometer and feeling for the shift points (especially the final one into TC lockup) will tell you that.

It does NOT have a tachometer, unfortunately, but thanks for the input.

I have a 4-speed. From what I've heard, I'm glad I do. I have to ask though, if you don't want to spend $150 on a SGII, why do you want to try the idea of swapping trannies? Don't get me wrong, I think it would definitely be worth it, but the initial cost is still going to be a major setback, just like the SG, and probably worse. If you can find a JY tranny then great, but don't forget you'll need at the very least the ECM along with any other doodads to go with the mod. Also, would you install it yourself (that would help with cost, obviously)?

I would say if you want to do mechanical mods to make your '97 more fuel efficient, then go for it, but people here like changing the driver before the car, so don't expect them to tell you something different. If you can find a JY later model Corolla to be a donor car then great. Use the tranny, ECM, MAF sensor (instead of the MAP), etc. I forget does the '97 have VVT-i? Actually I think you have an AFE engine, so probably not. You could always find a newer 8th gen engine, tranny and whatever else. That would give you a nice efficient car with all the "modern" equipment. Again, though... cost. It just depends on how far down that road you want to go.

I also didn't want to put down 2 bills for a device, so I got the Ultragauge. I'm glad I did. The UG can have up to 8 gauges at once and multiple pages which you "turn" with the push of a button. I found this to be better, because I like having them all on one screen and not have to pre-decide what gauges will be useful that day. The best part is that it was half the price of the SG! You might want to look into that instead.

Don't forget, you can do cheap aero mods to improve economy. Grab some inexpensive lawn edging and make an air dam and see what that does for you. Cloropast the belly, just stay away from the exhaust. There are a number of things you can use for a grill block (lawn edging and cloroplast included). If your comfortable, you can remove the passenger mirror. A $150 can go a long way with these mods and an ultragauge. Depending on how much you drive you could see the $150 back in your pocket with these mods in a matter of months and you don't have to do any major testing, it's been proven by people here many times over.

Hope this helps and good luck! :thumbup:

I spent most of the day today fiberglassing the front bumper to cover up the airscoop, which I've had blocked off for over a month with no ill effect. It has netted a noticable gain in MPGs. I would be installing the transmission myself, and late 90's Corollas and Prisms litter the salvage yards, so I imagine I could get one for less than $500 installed with new components. No way a scangauge will save me more money than two extra gears would; however, I have no plans to swap the transmission unless this one ****s the bed entirely, which is highly improbable even though this car has 214k miles on it.

The gearing on the 3-speed is 77% smaller than the gearing on the 4 speed in every gear except overdrive, which is absent from the 3-speed (obviously). Therefore, I should theoretically be able to get better MPGs for city driving at certain speeds, but I don't know exactly what speeds those are, because I don't know what MPH my shift points are at. I think the 4-speed would probably save me SOME MPGs at highway speed, and I have a 75.6 mile daily commute to my job, but I don't know if it would save me enough to warrant getting a 4-speed, when I could just as well install a 5 or 6 MT. This engine does not have the VVT-i.

93-97 Toyota Corolla Automatic Transaxle Gearing:
1st 2nd 3rd 4th
A245E 3.643 2.008 1.296 0.892
A131L 2.810 1.549 1.000 0.000
Difference: 77.1% 77.1% 77.2% 0.0%

Changing Transaxles is a LAST RESORT
 

I spent most of the day today fiberglassing the front bumper to cover up the airscoop, which I've had blocked off for over a month with no ill effect. It has netted a noticeable gain in MPGs. I would be installing the transmission myself, and late 90's Corollas and Prisms litter the salvage yards, so I imagine I could get one for less than $500 installed with new components. No way a scangauge will save me more money than two extra gears would; however, I have no plans to swap the transmission unless this one ****s the bed entirely, which is highly improbable even though this car has 214k miles on it.

The gearing on the 3-speed is 77% smaller than the gearing on the 4 speed in every gear except overdrive, which is absent from the 3-speed (obviously). Therefore, I should theoretically be able to get better MPGs for city driving at certain speeds, but I don't know exactly what speeds those are, because I don't know what MPH my shift points are at. I think the 4-speed would probably save me SOME MPGs at highway speed, and I have a 75.6 mile daily commute to my job, but I don't know if it would save me enough to warrant getting a 4-speed, when I could just as well install a 5 or 6 MT. This engine does not have the VVT-i.

93-97 Toyota Corolla Automatic Transaxle Gearing:
1st 2nd 3rd 4th
A245E 3.643 2.008 1.296 0.892
A131L 2.810 1.549 1.000 0.000
Difference: 77.1% 77.1% 77.2% 0.0%

punch a hole in your exhaust so you can hear your rpm.

That's a good idea. I might try that.

Just checking: you did see the advice was to find yourself a USED SG or UG? Which you could later re-sell?

If you're resourceful enough to be able to acquire & maintain/modify an ultra-cheap used car, biding your time to also acquire a cheap, used car computer/scan tool/MPG gauge shouldn't be much of a stretch.

Dont worry about it, just air the tires up and coast as much as you can in neutral. You have a $150 car that is getting you over 30 MPG. If that was me I would be tickled pink on the purchase price and not too worried about anything else. The shift points have been debated here repeatedly and the conclusion is it makes little difference in overall mileage how you accelerate within reasonable limits.
Around here any old Corolla that you can get in and drive sells for 10 times that money.

regards
Mech

I won't tell you to buy one but I will lay out a couple reasons for it.

It may not save you more money than 2 extra gears, but unless you do the work your self(and value your time at close to $0), and have access to free/super cheap parts. The ROE for an ultra gauge is much quicker.

I Have no doubt that my new ultra gauge has saved me more than it cost. Went from upper 30s to low 40s on my escort. The pay off was less than 3 months.

Yes a 5 speed will improve things, but you will still be scratching your head as to what rpm you are running at and if it is at an efficient load.

Everything RPM, gear ratio, engine load and speed works out to = some instant MPG, those instant MPGs average into a tank mpg. a $61 bit of kit (ultragauge) will work that out for you on the fly. No matter what transmission you have it helps to have some feedback.

Add to that the likelihood (especially on a 16 year old car) that eventually you will get a CEL makes a compelling case for some sort of OBDII readout.

If you are dead set against some sort of read out then I can say that in general a the more ratios available the more likely the engine will be in a more efficient RPM/Load range and more likely the final ratio will get cruising RPM down.

Stab a hole in the exhaust. Listen when the shift changes happen. Hey, it's a free mod if you are absolutely against buying a scangauge (which is the best idea here). A OBDII blue tooth connection is also a lot cheaper and can connect to your phone as well.

A modern smart phone can tell you your MPH if your speedometer is also not functioning.

http://www.amazon.com/Small-Elm327-O.../dp/B005M1AVFQ

This option won't be as nice as a dedicated scan gauge, but it will still give the same data points.

This.

BTW, I wouldn't punch a hole in your exhaust, maybe disconnect the muffler for testing and then re-attach it.

This is a very interesting thread, with lots of good advice. :)

But you don't need to buy a scan gauge. You don't need to do a tranny swap. You don't need to punch a hole in your exhaust. Since your car doesn't have a tachometer, you only need to be able to hear when your engine RPM's change, from higher to lower pitch.

BTW, if you roll the window down and turn the radio off you might be able to actually hear the points at which your A/T shifts from the sound of your engine's RPM - if you are attentive and listening for it.

All you need to do to improve your FE is to is accelerate relatively briskly up to about 40-45 MPH (which means you will be in highest gear and/or TC lockup), at which point you will get your best fuel economy.

In city driving at lower speeds, as was recommended, when approaching a stop sign or a red light throw it into neutral and coast to a stop or a near stop, without braking unless absolutely necessary.

No special mods or equipment necessary. A knowing strategy is the first line of improving FE. ;)

A 4-speed wouldn't be a bad option to retrofit into, but only if you would still want to keep beating this same old beater after the 3-speed gets definitely shot. Would worth to keep an eye for a totaled one with the 4-speed and a decent engine...

The OBDII Bluetooth adaptor seems like a very good idea, and there are so many apps for them on my Android based phone I don't even know where to begin. However, I've heard horror stories about ones that didn't work/we plastic boxes with no internals, but I'm considering getting one. Probably wait until payday and let you all know if it works or not. Heck, even if I buy two or three before I find one that works, It'll still be cheaper than even a used Scangauge II.

Go to the cheapest parts store in town / pick a part yard, find the cheapest universal Tachometer they have, and install it. Watch the RPM for shift points. $20 and 10 minutes spent - problem solved.

Update: I bought an OBDII Bluetooth adaptor. Should be here tomorrow, and hopefully it works. I've also gotten a pretty good idea where the shift points are by accelerating quickly (which seems obvious now, but I didn't do it before). Results:
1st-to-2nd: 15-25mph
2nd-to-3rd: 47-50mph
Which means that running at my typical 100km/h (about 62mph) rate means I'm probably doing pretty good on the RPM's and not lugging the engine.
Removed the passenger side mirror, finally. Bondo is drying right now. Will sand and paint this evening. Increased tire pressure to 26psi in all four tires, which certainly makes it easier to steer in parking lots with now power steering. I just got to 37mpg, I'm sure I can break 40 before I even do belly pans.

Thanks to everyone for the input.

most cars tire pressures are around 30-35(miata's are the only ones ive come across that are in the 20's); there is normally a sticker placed by the manufacture on the drivers door or door sil that should tell you what the manufacture actually tested stuff at.


ps. the difference between a cruze eco and non-eco model according to that sticker is 3psi

I know about the manufacturer's recommendation, and I have ruined at least one set of very nice performance tires on a Mercury Marauder by over inflating them, but those tires had side walls so stiff they were practically run flats. These tires on the Corolla... aren't. They're spongy and soft, and they roll on their sidewalls in sharp turns (which I still do when I'm entering an onramp). In the short period I've owned this car, I've noted wear is greater on the edges than it is in the center, which is yet another motivation to inflate these above the manufacturer's specifications. Tire brand is just as important in determining this as is the label. That is interesting about the Chevy Cruze, but I suspect that the low rolling resistance tires on the Eco also require, or can handle a higher PSI.