Shocker! ForkenSwift's identical twin under construction...
 

Geo Metro Electic Conversion Project

What a jolt ... to discover a couple of guys are taking what looks like the ForkenSwift's identical twin Metro, and they're doing a budget conversion on it.

To top it off - the car's in Hawaii! Don't ask me why, but I find it very cool that the ForkenSwift's twin is being built in freaking Hawaii, while today I was out in the snow & ice, squirting oil into its body panels to try keeping rust from coming back and ruining the bodywork I did this summer. :D



They started documenting on Oct. 14 ('07), and just before Xmas the motor was installed on the transmission:

It's the current thing to do.

People's resistance to the idea does seem to be going down.

There's definately less reluctance to conduct these kind of experiments.

I think the potential has always been there, but with these gas prices, folks are getting pretty wired. I really get a charge out of these stories.

A series of forkenswifts - nice :thumbup:

SW: I can't compete with that! :p

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that they're using bed frames for the battery racks. I wrecked more than 1 drill bit on bed frame metal making the FS's racks...

http://electricmetro.blogspot.com/20...ts-puzzle.html

It looks like you have a 3rd twin comming up MetroMPG. I was just messing around on craigslist and found this today:

http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/wan/530645053.html

I believe I've seen links to this guys site before... maybe off gassavers?

Interesting. I hadn't seen this guy's motorcycle conversion before.

Hey that's my bike!
 

I just finished reading all 26 pages of the Forkenswift thread.

I get to the end and click the "twin being made in Hawaii" link and get to this one.

Read through and find that somebody has actually referenced my crappy web page for my cycle build.

I had to laugh out loud. I have never experienced anybody "talking about me" on the internet before.

This must be what it feels like to Google yourself and actually get a hit.

I just added a hit counter to my web page. I would have done that originally if I thought anyone was going to actually VIEW IT!

I love the motorcycle, but it isn't so great in Wisconsin rain and winters. I started looking around for some info on a light/cheap EV conversion - anything with 3 or more wheels on the ground and a roof would do.

The closest thing I could find to what I am looking to do is the Forkenswift.

And, yeah, that Craigslist listing was mine too. I did find a guy with a junked out forklift in his garage. It is about 10" diameter 48 Volt. It doesn't have an info plate on it, so I will have to go over there sometime and yank the thing off the forklift to get a better look at it.

-Ben

Hey Ben - welcome!

Hey I've seen your site and would hardly call it crappy. Cool design, good pics & info.

Feel like posting a dedicated thread about your bike here? You don't have to reproduce your blog - but give us a quick 'n' dirty run down? & post a link to the blog, of course.

I'd be curious to find out more about your riding impressions. How many miles so far? When's the last time you rode it? Did you create an EV Album entry for it yet?

A 10 inch motor is pretty big for a small car. If it's cheap, that's another matter altogether. But you need to make sure its diameter isn't so large that it will create clearance problems for the right side driveshaft on a Metro conversion.

I am on Austin EV, although I do still need to update my vehicle profile a bit.

http://www.evalbum.com/1133


The Austin EV album was the first place I really got to learn some good overall info on EVs from. I pretty much just looked to see what components everyone else was using, bought a copy of "Secrets of El Ninja" and went from there.

Thanks for the complements on the web page. It is fun to work on projects like these, but it is sometimes hard to find good information on strange projects. Setting up a blog or web page helps other people try new things, maybe even inspiring them to do so.

A couple years ago I built a little camping trailer from scratch. I had no idea what I was doing, but there was a great web community of people building them. Very inspirational and supportive.
Here are some photos of my camper:
http://web.mac.com/benhdvideoguy/iWe.../Teardrop.html
and this is the web forum for all that sort of thing:
http://www.mikenchell.com/forums/

I don't think I ever would have tackled a weird project like an electric motorcycle if I had not first done the trailer. (Good experience builder)

I built the motorcycle for a lot of reasons, but one of the main ones was just to "DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT". So many people complain about the price of gas, or the trouble with government, or whatever.

If you do something about it, ANYTHING, instead of just complaining, it really puts a positive spin on things and does make you feel a little more in control of your life.

Right after I got the cycle going, gas prices going up actually made me smile a little knowing that my fuel economy based on price of electricity vs gas, also just went up!

I just got that. I'm glad there are all these EV projects going on in parallel. ;)

OooOoOooooo, I get it now, :)

New forklift lead!

I just heard about a 36V electric forklift for sale locally. It is supposed to be in working condition, but has no batteries.

It is a "stand-on" style. I am hoping that means it has just the right sized engine for what I am looking for.

I am planning to look at it on Friday.

I will post more info then.

-Ben

I thought you said it was "New forklift lead!" looks like you'll have to supply your own lead (Pb) ;)

Silverwings is Der Punmeister!!! :D

Where is the "we are not worthy" emoticon? ;)

Fun stuff. Looking forward to the update.

Word up! I hope it's much better than darin's!

So do I! :D Learn from our experience, for sure.

Hey Darin,

quick couple of forklift questions for you.

I read the ENTIRE Forkenswift thread about a month ago. Most of it was very late at night.

Please remind me what voltage the original forklift was. Also, as I recall, you bought the forklift for how much? and sold the scrap later for a certain amoun t?

Well if you live on an island, the demand for long travel distances aren't really a concern which is why it isn't more popular here.

The price of going EV vs the drivability range of the car kills the whole idea for me..
I'd think by now they'd have altanators that could charge faster than what draws off the batteries.. I'd love to see more diesel hybrid stuff out here..

Thats where I'd put my mulah.. All the city bus's in the area are diesel hybrids...

It was a 36v lift truck. Most of the components (with tags) are 36/48v rated.

Paid: $704 (including tax and delivery - purchase price was $500).

Sold for scrap: $364

Ah, but that would make it a perpetual motion machine. No can do!

why?

the technology has to be there by now..
I'm sure the gov would put a cap on something like that in a heartbeat tho..

"We obey the laws of thermodynamics in this house."

Sounds like closed minded thinking there.. ;)

The ForkenSwift's Hawaiian twin has taken its first drive! http://electricmetro.blogspot.com/20...em-voyage.html

FYI, it's a 72v setup, with six 12v marine batteries.

Oh, to have new batteries...

He's done 21 miles with 45% remaining in the batts. Planning a 30 mile (50 km!) trip. That's 2x what the FS can do in nice weather.

.26 KWH/mile is his energy use, via a kill-a-watt on one charge cycle. Interesting.

I have a 48v setup - six 8v batteries. (US 8VGC) The longest I have gone was 25 miles, and it wasn't happy the last mile. According to the Kill-a-Watt meter, I use about the same amount per mile, about 247 wH/mile. It appeared to drive normally until about 23 miles, then slowed considerably.

I would recommend he try it in steps before planning a 30 mile drive... Seems to me that distance is likely to be out of range unless the 'marine batteries' are relatively large - If they weigh 90 pounds or so each, they might just make 30 miles. (the US 8VGC I have weigh about 67 pounds. Lead = range.)

Correction: fresh lead = range :)

Tom, why did you opt for 6x8 rather than 8x6? (I'm thinking that 8x6 was the stock setup, but maybe I'm wrong.)

Excellent point about fresh lead :D

My daily commute is 10 miles (5 each way) so instead of hauling around an extra 130 pounds of batteries, I went with six 8v (less expensive as well). My SOC doesn't get below 50%, so I should get good battery life. I planned the number of batteries based on the information in the 'battery FAQ'. Time will tell if it works out.

If I had to go 15 or 20 miles a day, it would have been worth getting the extra two batteries so the SOC wouldn't get too low, and I wouldn't worry about an extra mile or two beyond 20 miles for errands.

From the 'battery FAQ' -

If a battery is discharged to 50% every day, it will last about twice as long as if it is cycled to 80% DOD. If cycled only 10% DOD, it will last about 5 times as long as one cycled to 50%. Obviously, there are some practical limitations on this - you don't usually want to have a 5 ton pile of batteries sitting there just to reduce the DOD. The most practical number to use is 50% DOD on a regular basis. This does NOT mean you cannot go to 80% once in a while. It's just that when designing a system when you have some idea of the loads,
you should figure on an average DOD of around 50% for the best storage vs cost factor. Also, there is an upper limit - a battery that is continually cycled 5% or less will usually not last as long as one cycled down 10%.

How are you measuring SOC? I have yet to get a hydrometer, and I understand that's what's needed to do it right.

I measured SOC with a hydrometer for the first few trips I made with the new pack, but haven't measured it within the past four months. Seems these days that I am less worried about reliability, and 'just drive it'. It has proven to be really easy to maintain - I look at the battery water once a month, and make sure the battery cables are tight/not hot at the same time.

I think there has to be a way to produce some energy while you're driving like Chris said. At least enough to slow the draining of the battery power. There are so many sources you could get energy from: the wind resistance, the spinning tires, maybe even heat from the controller. Why not attach a sprocket or something to one of the back wheels and have it spinning a small generator inside the car? The laws of thermodynamics are just theories...and its not like no ones ever broken a law before. Even on youtube I've seen people who have made magnetic motors that use little energy, if any at all to start.

I wish there was more design for some type of reverse balanced clutch as a braking mechanism.

1) Put on brakes a little and the BRAKE CLUTCH slowly engages the engine as a generator on the car.
2) Apply more brakes and the BRAKES convert to standard friction brakes and really stop the car.

Just checked into the twin's thread: I don't think he was happy with the performance of his batteries (range), so...
http://electricmetro.blogspot.com/