Should I pursue this high-mileage 2011 Camry?
 

What am I doing outside of the Lounge? Can I ad-hominem here?!

I am pretty sure that I mentioned this somewhere, but I mention many things in various places:
Oh good! It breaks well!

Can you expect people to take care of their car if you cannot expect them to take care to write clearly?

I am going to guess that the seatbelt light indicates an expensive problem.

I didn't think the cosmetic damage was minimal when I first saw it, but I think that I did worse to my rental!

In [almost] no particular order:
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1606118173
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1606118087
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1606118092
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1606118096
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1606118100
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1606118107
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1606118111
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1606118116
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1606118120
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1606118127
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1606118132
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1606118153
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1606118158
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1606118163
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1606118168
That scrape isn't too bad and the car sure was clean four months ago! When I realized how old the ad was I scanned her profile to see if she mentioned selling it.

No, but she sounds aggravating.

I asked and she replied "No I ended up waiting."

That could mean anything, but the ad is still up, so I am sure that she waited for an offer near her asking price.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1606119765
As you can clearly see, Kelley says that it is worth between $5,169 and $7,138; approximately $6,154, and that is in good condition.

I don't know its mechanical shape, but I would describe the interior and exterior as beautiful--except for the scrape.

Maybe the engine is wearing out or the seatbelt light indicates a real problem.

I finally looked it up. All that I find is "Fasten your seatbelt, idiot!"

I want to have Mom negotiate having her mechanic look at it. Sure, her mechanic told me "I'm not fixing your car! You fix it!" However, aside from charging $50 to replace an air filter, he has always been good to her.

I say it's a $3,500 car, max. She will be waiting for some one to finance it at that price. It's not like the economy is hot right now.
If it didn't have a scrape on the side and she wanted $5,000 and I needed a car that destroys the planet it would be a top contender.

Hybrid versions, half the miles on them, aren't a lot more expensive around here...Oilpan's assessment seems about right.

Edit: $1500 '07 Prius with fewer miles on it just popped up here...if I hadn't bought the insight...

.

I agree with the sentiment that it's a bit pricey. I saw someone selling a '93 camry with 90k miles for 2500. I thought it was insane to pay that much for an almost 30 year old car... but I guess a sucker is born every day.

Shop around. Fair market value of my Volt is half that asking price, I'll never sell it.

He was just paraphrasing. Centuries earlier I believe it was:

Is that below the KBB estimate like this one?

Are you guys telling me to pursue the 2009 that needs repairs and paint for $4,000? https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...4994849902516/

Maybe this 2009 with [allegedly] more miles than the 2011 for $6,000? https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...9173955728084/

Perhaps this 2007 for $4,700? https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...9070292828043/

Ebay Motors shows 251 sold 2010 - 2012 Camries. Only two sold for less than this woman is asking. A hybrid with 246,000 miles sold for $2,850 and a normal one that is salvage sold for $3,150 with 142,165, but sold twice just before that.

The next-highest mileage one had 162,903 and sold 5 times, with the highest being $7,800.

Or do you guys think these are legitimate?
2010 for $1,399: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...2365661784462/
2012 for $1,500: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...8712731526586/
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...7349996335838/
2014 for $1,213: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...8905606561512/
2017 with 130,000 miles for $9,000 https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...3544712358162/

This is a Corolla, right? 2004 Ford Focus for $2,200: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...53644383114369
They sit on a throne of lies!


Of course, I would vastly prefer a Corolla, but the only one for sale is this 2005 with 204,000 miles.

What is with Toyotas with over 200,000 miles?!
It has a radio, though: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...69179500779697

They still work...?

Or do they and that is why they are selling them?!

Facebook is where all the scammers and people that want too much for their car went when Craigslist started charging $5 to list a car.

That is Lexus money: 2010 Lexus ES350, 171K miles - $5,000

https://static.cargurus.com/images/f...-1024x768.jpeg

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/invent...ting=288507133

Or for a bit more

2011 Prius III, 166K miles - $6000
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/invent...279_isFeatured

2014 Camry 140K miles $6,000
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/invent...ting=288408843

$6,000 for a 2014 Camry? I don't know, man, that is 2008 Yaris Base money!

[from the same dealership!]

Sales tax would be $497.59. As far as I can tell, the MVD would charge $81.37 for title and registration and then the dealership charges $499 for doing simple paperwork?

$7,072.96 out the door?

That is a great car, but $4,580 is looking pretty good!

The sales tax in that city is 8.3%. This shows most of the title and registration fees. This calculated the last fee.

I negotiate based on out the door price and I'm very clear with the salesman about that from the beginning.

The difference in sales tax on a $5000 car is $135. Well worth the 30K less miles and the fact that is the fancy Lexus version of a Camry without a scrape down the side.

$4,000 for a wrecked two-tone Camry? Not when there are 761 cars on Car Guru in the Phoenix area priced from $3000 - $5000, with less than 200K miles

Cars like this 2007 Camry Hybrid with 127K miles for $3900
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/invent...ting=282404042

I think those are the oil hog engines, one of my grandsons have an earlier one and it is fine. But his younger brother bought a newer one and it ran out of oil and is junk.

This is the ugliest car that I remember seeing at a dealership!
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1606375006
The 2007 hybrid gets 33/34 and the 2011 gasser gets 25/35. When I actually drive it is mostly highway and Show Low isn't really city driving, so it would be awesome to get better mileage in the newer car than the older hybrid.

Okay guys, calm down. $4,500 was the most that I would consider spending.

Why do you want to drive a boat anyway?

Yes, my personal judgement on size and shapes of cars is in the way of seeing the appeal. Sedans are useless for anything but transporting people...which I rarely do. Small hatchbacks FTW!

How do you run a car out of oil? Camry's of that generation require an oil change every 5000 miles. If you were burning oil fast enough to run out within the service interval it would be leaving a puddle or have visible smoke from the exhaust.

The 4th generation Camry (97 - 2001) had the oil sledging problem but that was due to neglect. If you didn't change the oil on schedule it could sludge in some of the smaller oil passages.

I agree - those wheels are awful. Use it to your advantage. A couple cans paint later and it is fixed.


I haven't driven the Camry hybrid but the Prius hybrids of that generation will easily beat the EPA mileage. The EPA reduced the rating on hybrids after the fact because lead-foots complained they weren't getting the rated mileage.

(The 2007 Camry hybrid was originally rated 40 city / 38 highway / 39 combined.)

Those hybrid drivetrains are pretty much bulletproof and you should never have to replace brake pads or rotors.

I share you feelings on sedans. It is wagons or hatchbacks for me. I transport 4 people and gear and a pretty regular basis so I prefer wagons. Unfortunately they are basically dead in the USA.

Everybody knows that wagons are four-door pickups!

All of us should beat New EPA. I am confident that many of us beat old EPA.

It looks like my Accord went from being rated 25/31 to 20/28, but I have had few tanks below 31 MPG.

The wheels look like spray paint. It probably has orange peel and other blemishes, so removing the paint would be a huge improvement.

I messaged the dealership "$4,000 out the door. It needs a new bumper and the wheels are hideous!"

They are only rated 3 stars, so I will probably regret trying.

One thing to consider is I found that in the time of low gas prices hybrids were going cheaper than the same comparable gasoline only car.

The 2004 Corolla is a manual!
 

It looks clean, the back bumper just has some damage. There are 11 for sale in the Phoenix area, a rear-ended autotragic with 225,000 miles, 2 Matrices, 7 seemingly-not-rear-ended autotragics, and this "Clean" manual:
https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1606538737
What the heck?!

The rest of it looks great. It has 180,000 miles and they are asking $3,100.

The blue book on the one in Pinetop is $2,100, but I am sure that you guys will claim it is worth three fifty: https://showlow.craigslist.org/cto/d...236270471.html

It is rated 28/36.

Hmmm back in 2013, I couldn't test drive anything with a manual they were special order only even back then. Might cause a discount or be mostly unsalable.

I received a notification for a 2009 Camry posted two days ago. The owner is also asking $4,500. This one is 2 years older, has 30-40,000 miles fewer, is rated 1 MPG less, doesn't have any visible damage, and the owner doesn't mention any lights.

Curiously, a white Celica shows up in one picture.

A white 2001 Celica is for sale. It must be the same guy!

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...27909805375856

Why not watch for a low mileage vehicle with a rebuilt title? When I bought my '16 Versa SV in Feb. 2019 it had 10,546 miles. I was on the road with purchase price ($5300), tax and tags for under $5700. The same car without a rebuilt title booked for about $9500. My wife is wanting to buy another car for her use as a daily driver in the not too distant future. We're currently keeping an eye out for another low mileage rebuild. I'd much rather have something with 10-30K miles on it for $5-6K than something with 200K+ miles. Resale value doesn't bother me since if I live long enough I'll just drive it till it wears out.

Someone posted a 2017 Versa with a restored salvage title 5 weeks ago. They asked $6,500 with 68,000 miles: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...0284172823841/

Has this epidemic made for better or worse used car prices?

That is a complicated question: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/15/used...consumers.html

Seems to be generally worse. Higher prices.

I looked at another Versa a little over a week ago that had 29K miles. I could have bought it for $5300 but they did a poor job on a front end repair so we passed it up. The thing with buying rebuilt is you'll likely have to watch the market pretty closely for awhile but if you watch it long enough a good buy will likely come along. At least they do fairly often in this area. I've done some research in my area and found several independent dealers that deal in lots of rebuilt cars. Some do pretty good work others do as little as possible and it shows in the quality of their cars, yet they try to get the prices that some of the better dealers want. My wife isn't in any great hurry so we're willing to wait for the right deal. I saw an '18 Kia Rio the other week with 3K miles. If I recall correctly they were asking $5800. We didn't go look at it because I'm not too confident in Kia. Kia may be OK but I've never had much dealings with them or Hyundai. One of my cousins had a Kia she bought new. She always had it serviced regularly at the dealership and I think it had to have the transmission replaced at about 100K miles. My son's wife has a Hyundai but it's not old enough nor does it have enough miles on it to convince me of their longevity. I feel pretty confident in my Versa with the main worry being the longevity of the CVT but I plan to do fluid/filter changes every 30K miles hoping to keep it happy and on the road for many years. At least Nissan extended the warranty on the newer CVT's from 5/60-7/84 as a resolution to a class action law suit. Even mine with a rebuilt title was included in the extended warranty because I got a letter from Nissan with the VIN on it saying it was covered.

Here's a '15 Versa with 41K miles listed as excellent condition in Nashville about 60 miles from me. Their asking price is $5882. https://bgky.craigslist.org/ctd/d/na...228028429.html

I looked at the manual Corolla this morning. The owner says that it was stolen, they recovered it, and repaired all of the mechanical damage, but it had dents all around it like someone did it on purpose.
I checked for error codes and it had three for misfires, but the check engine light was off, so I don't know what is going on there.
I didn't test-drive it, I found a mechanic that could look at it, and they couldn't get the code to return, but the struts were bad, and that would cost $500 - 600.
The owner was asking $2,200. Blue Book is $2,100 and said that she was willing to come down $200.
I told her that I drove Mom's Camry with bad struts and it was scary, so that was critical, and I offered her $1,600.
"No."
"Have fun."
I didn't expect her to agree, just make a counter-offer.

She started at $2,200 and dropped that to $2,000 - she did her counter upfront and went straight to her final price. Sounds like a fair price especially with "New battery & starter. Newer tires and brakes."

Assuming this Corolla:
https://showlow.craigslist.org/cto/d...236270471.html


Complete Monroe strut assemblies with spring already installed are $108 each. Easy plug and play - no dealing with spring compressors and possible death.

https://www.amazon.com/Monroe-172115...Toyota+Corolla
https://www.amazon.com/Monroe-172114...Toyota+Corolla

or less if you don't need Monroe "quality"
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Front-Pair-...cAAOSwpo9fbD4d

The clean 2011 Camry was only worth $3,500, but the 2004 Corolla with 10-20 dents and leaking struts is worth $2,000?

How about the mechanic that inspected it and said that it was worth $1,500?

The "clean" Camry had a scrape down the side and more than 200K miles. In all likelihood it needs struts too. They are wear items that most people never change.

I never put a price on the 2011 Camry. I said for $5K there are better options
- like the 2010 Lexus with a clean body and less miles.

At $2000 you are approaching the minimum price for a relatively modern running Toyota. Anything in that price range is going to need some work.

The mechanic was just subtracting his cost to do struts from the KBB. I did the same with the part cost.

2010 high-mileage Prius in Phoenix for $1,800.
 

I would pursue it if it were within my radius: https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/c...241645353.html

1984 Thunderbird with seized engine for $400
 

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...9282210864682/

The Crown Victoria used the same engine. A place in Phoenix has one with a 6-month warranty for $300.

Of course it is. Who wouldn't want a Prius on it's 4th engine and 3rd battery.

What is your radius? Phoenix is only 3 hours. Seems well with range to check out a few cars on a Saturday and make a purchase.

I wanted that generation Thunderbird when I was in high school. The 2.3L Turbo out of the Mustang SVO is the best engine for that generation. Lincoln's version had a nice BMW Turbodiesel as an option.

You have issues.

Some creep publicly posted that I had a fetish earlier today.

I got his post removed. Of course, he got mine removed after whining first.

I told Mom what I posted and she laughed, which has never been an indication that something was inappropriate.

Unless it’s an EV, I have no interest in buying domestic ever again...I’ve had a number of high-mileage imports over the last decade, and they all ran like champs.

I never had a problem with my Foci, but maybe I would have had they not been totaled almost immediately.

If I ever found a light blue 2013 Focus SFE for a good price I would pursue it. Dad got 50 MPG in his, but none of us could afford to keep it.

We never stop missing those we have lost, do we?

Cursed onion ninjas!

My experience with domestics is mostly from late 80's until early 2000s. The best were mediocre. The Dodge 4-banger was a complete turd, won't touch one again.

Ok, not completely fair. My first car - cousin to a cavalier - was decent. Gave me 70,000 trouble-free kilometers - on top of easily twice that already on it - on the 2.0l OHC, TBI engine. Manual trans, otherwise it probably wouldn't have lasted as long. Gave great gas mileage.

The Geo Metros were good too. Not to say they didn't have things wear out, but they were too simple to have many things break down on them. Of course, a couple of them had engines built in Japan, not that I noticed much difference between a Japanese built engine and a domestically built one.

The Hyundai's I had sucked. So "import" being better is not all encompassing.

My '91 Nissan hard body with the 2.4l 4-cylinder wouldn't die, mechanically. Barely did anything for it. Rust was an issue. I don't think the 6 cylinder ones lasted as long. Then again, the would have almost all come with 4 wheel drive automatics, and probably get a lot more abuse in their life.

The miata was at about 300k when I sold it, and ran great. The engine was a bit tired until it warmed up a bit. It hadn't lead an easy life, either. Not surprising, for a sports car, though surprising that it put up with it.

I didn't want my wife to get her Saturn Vue until a bit of research showed that it came with a Honda engine and trans. Other than a wheel bearing, it's been trouble-free for many years. The transmissions are the weak point in these, so I won't be surprised if it's what eventually kills it. She's light on the gas pedal, so that might take a while.

What else was there?

A brief stint with a '00 Ford Ranger, 4 cylinder/5-speed. Nothing too wrong with it, nothing great about it. Pretty gutless. The '91 Nissan hardbody had noticeably more get-up-and-go, and ran and rode better. The ford engine was basically an updated version of the engine they were using in the 80s, iirc. Reliable, perhaps, but lackluster.

That's one thing with all the domestics I've owned or driven...when I want to go, I want to go. You gear down and punch the gas and...they're anemic. There's no zip. Better off just keeping them in the middle-rpm range where they develop reasonable torque. Of course, I've never owned a domestic with variable valve timing...or even DOHC. They didn't put such things in their affordable line-ups. They didn't even put OHC in a lot of them in the model years I owned. I mean...come on. Yeesh. Built as cheaply as they could design them down to...

I think that's what killed any interest in domestics for me. The decent brands of imports could build a decent product at a decent price, but the domestics? Noooo...even though they had the benefit of not having the cost of bringing them across the ocean, they couldn't. Bottom-dollar quality. Afraid anything Daewoo-sourced and, at least older Hyundai's were the same.

Never mind wearable items like wheel bearings and such on domestics...but major ones are/were still built as cheap as possible. If you did any significant engine power improvements, you'd end up having to replace the trans and, usually, the rear end. They'd only be rated to handle a few more HP more than the engine they came with. Miata trans? No problem. The rear-end on the early ones would go, but if you had the slightly later 1.8l, no problem. My Z's trans and rear end are supposedly good for 2.5x the HP it comes with stock. Point being, even if you tried to make your domestic less lethargic, you had to replace everything else while you were at it. Yuck.

Buddy at work had a cobalt. Everything went bad on it, got rid of it the moment he could afford to. He didn't rag on it or anything...it was a grocery-getter. Glad yours is ok.

He replaced it with a Trax that blew it's head gasket within a year or so. Traded in soon after. Don't think they're interested in risking owning something with a 4 cylinder ever again because of it.

I don't know anyone at work who's owned a Dodge that had anything good to say about it. One guy was driving a PT cruiser until recently...I don't see those any more. They've all gone to an early grave, despite everyone and their grandma wanting one 20 years ago.

The real thing that screams - to me, at least - the domestic vs import longevity are the classified ads. In the uber-cheap ads, you have your imports that just won't die...oh, they're falling apart, but they still run and drive decently, have way too many miles on them but just keep going...but in the same price range, you find plenty of much newer, much lower mileage domestics with blown trans, broken timing belts (and bent valves), and whatever else. A lot of dodges, a lot of GM econo-boxes. Seeing cars that aren't yet 15 years old and don't even have 200,000kms on them in that state sets off alarm bells. Unless the import has a well known issue, usually with a specific engine during specific years, you never see them in the uber-cheap - on their death beds - class.

I admit things have changed over the years and my distrust/distaste for domestics might be out of date, but, really, if the domestic manufacturers want to change their image, they need to make an effort to stop selling crap (ex rebadged Daewoos), stop building/designing their vehicles - all of them, including the entry-level econo-boxes - to the "bottom dollar" scheme they've been using for decades. If people discover that their little @#$%-box can and will get to 300,000kms without a hiccup, no matter what they do to it, they'll treat it better and they'll actually retain some value after the 10 or 15 year mark.

I don't like things being built to be disposable. Sure, it's good business, but I am not going to put good money or effort in to something that is. Neither will most people.

/rant.

2000 Insight with loud synchros.
 

I guess this is where I am posting cars where the owners are asking more than about $1,500.

Except for that 1994 Civic hatchback, but that was also asking for a source of the VX's favorite status among hypermilers.

This 2000 manual Insight is for sale half an hour south of Flagstaff. I think that it is actually closer to Tucson than to me.

Yay.

Daox's thread sounds relevant: 2000 Honda Insight 5 speed manual transmission fix (ISB, 2nd gear grind, clutch)

That sounds like a bigger project than I had thought!

The car looks beautiful inside and out, but is it worth $2,000 (and 7 hours of driving!)? 2000 Honda Insight Hybrid - $2,000 (Paulden)