Should I stay or should I go now?
 

We had four three-day drills with the National Guard this year. Those days are coming from July and September--we do not report those months. I will have completed eight years October first, two in Germany, one in Afghanistan, and four and a half in the Guard. We realized today that, unless I extend, I only have one more drill.

Everyone asks if I want to stay in (or why I would want to). I do not know how many decisions I make based on what I want, but instead what I should do. I do not know that I do anything (for the greater good) reporting to drill every month, but I feel it is one way to try to contribute to society.

I work part-time as an in-home speech therapist, but I consider it to be full-time pay. Once I maintain twenty hours a week I receive a substantial raise and can apply to Northern Arizona University's summers-only Master's program, which would allow me to do my job much better, and pay would increase accordingly.

I would not feel right extending for x years and saying I will not be available for annual training, although this year we had it in April, and it is scheduled for next April, too.

Superficially, if I see a couple of clients every Saturday, I could make more than at drill, although they are offering four thousand to extend two years and twelve thousand to extend six. Also, I am contact-only, so health insurance may be worth as much or more than my pay.

I do not have any complaints about the Army, I just feel it is time to move on, although I hate the idea of having drill immediately preceding finals in grad school, or even the possibility of my Guard responsibilities interfering with completing the program.

Cs only earn undergraduate degrees.

I just want to make the best-informed decision I can. Do any of you have productive feedback? Thank you very much!

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3vnQluFouU

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There seems to be a better future in the speech therapy gig. Go.

had a buddy who was a captain in the reserve (AF). Said he was doing it mainly out of 'service' (like you) but also because after 20 yrs it would an nice extra retirement and some health benefits.
so, if it was me, I'd look at the long -term retirement aspect and not the month to month income comparison.

Could you do the years to snag a retirement?

If I put in twelve more years, I should receive at least a thousand a month, but not until I turn sixty, although I thought it was sixty-five, so it is at least better than I had understood.

Our retention sergeant says you start receiving benefits once you complete twenty years.

Let's say I reenlist for six years, take the $12,000 bonus, and with six months to prepare, barring ridiculous mandatory on-line training, I prepare myself adequately to get promoted, make $6,000 a year, and then get promoted to Staff Sergeant four years later, one bonus for six years. That would total around a hundred thousand. I would be forty-nine. If I live to be eighty-four and receive $1,200 a month for twenty-four years, I would receive $345,600 in retirement. Arguably, the average of $8,333.33 I would make a year would technically be $37,133.33.

I can replace Guard pay with Saturday clients, right? What if I worked enough to put money in retirement?

With the goal of doubling the investment every twelve years, I calculated that I would need a 5.95% investment rate (pretty close to the rule of 72).

Three hours a week would cover drill pay, but I would need to work eight hours every weekend, and invest five-eights of it, in order to invest enough to yield as much as the Army retirement for twenty-four years.

On the horns of a dilemma.

How long do the males in your lineage usually live? Another consideration.

Could you leave the Army, enter school full time and join ROTC, then have the remaining years at a higher pay grade?

When I got out of the USAF in Dec of '64, rank of E4, I worked for 6 months and then went to Michigan State to finish my BA. I had two years, including one summer, to go. During my first Fall registration, I was contacted by the USAF ROTC commander and told that if I joined ROTC at that time, that when I graduated with my BA, I would also be a 2nd Lt in the AF with more than 4 years of seniority. That is, I would be a 2nd Lt with over four. Thus a senior 2nd louie. I declined and that kept me out of Viet Nam.

I'm more patriotic than most in that I'm more willing to put my own skin in the game, so that's why I have high admiration for your service.

Why are you unsure of your service contributing to the greater good? The main purpose of having a trained and equipped army is not to fight battles, but to be so powerful that war is avoided in the first place. I imagine your function contributes to military readiness, and that is a service.

As far as involvement in quagmire conflicts goes; I expect the US to show greater restraint in deploying in the near future as the pendulum of public opinion swings back towards isolationism.

Not all decisions should be reduced to monetary benefit. If that were the case, I would recommend that you become a lawyer, hedge-fund manager, or drug kingpin. Do what you're good at.

Finally, are you the type that has the discipline to work those extra jobs and invest the extra funds? Use your past experience to inform yourself of what your future actions likely will be. If you're not the best at investing surplus income, then a structured retirement benefit like the one provided by the Army is the wiser choice.

How many points do you have?

He who retires with the most wins.

You stike me as a 'hard worker'
your going to do fine.
but why give up on an 'extra income'
Back to my buddy.
He's a computer geek. now he's 'retired' from the service at 55 but works fulltime w a civilian contractor making $150k
but he still have his military retirement and benefits, his ss AND what he's socking away At BoozAllen.

THe one component of this that you are NOT factoring in financially is the increasing cost of private health care.

If you can find more clients, especially on the weekend, I would focus on the speech thing and forget the Army. It sounds like the Army is a dead-end job but speech therapy could take you far. Plus the Army is disruptive. I imagine it's hard to live when you might ship out at any time.

Fallacy of the excluded middle. If you couldn't do either, what would be your heart's desire?

Being in part time isn't worth the money. It costs money- in direct expenses, lost (real world) work time and lost (real world) opportunities.

Do you like being in? Then it's worth it. They even pay you something and if you keep deciding you like it then you'll see some retirement benefits. If you enjoy what you're actually doing and can accept the overall use of the military, stay in.

I loved everything I did, but wasn't going to keep going back to try and get blown up because we just had to keep invading people and all that. But that's why I always recommend extending for the shortest stint so you can review your priorities sooner: a lot can happen in two years, much less six.

Quoted For Truth.

I completed ROTC in my 4th year of college. By the time I graduated in my 5th year we'd gone from 50K to 500K pairs of boots on the ground in sunny SE Asia.

So I watched the Democratic national convention in Chicago on TV and then drove to Ft. Lewis.

I hate tricare I pay about 100 more a month for real insurance.

In 2002, people were screaming about how we had to invade Iraq. It made no practical sense except to get Murricans to the polls- nothing to worry about, I re-upped for three.

In 2003, guess what? No worries though, nobody's going to send towed artillery to a mechanized war. Later that year the Administration unveiled Operation Fait Accompli: Gee, it turns out this is going to take a while longer... And everyone who could correctly identify a rifle got handed a brown uniform, and not much else.

In 2005 we made it home. Everything else we did got met with a cheerful "Don't matter to me, I'm out in October!" I looked hard for some other duty position, but the root was that no matter how much I loved being in I wasn't willing to go back and back and back to the same stupid damn war. I wasn't going to spend my time until retirement scamming out of deployments, either.

Taking the shortest hitch meant I only had to do one year of dehydration, back injuries, IEDs, hillbilly armor, corrupt command and KBR contractors making more money than any soldier ever will. After I got out my unit kept training on its howitzers while repeatedly sending its troops over as MPs. I had to go to a funeral this spring for one of the guys I had been there with, he killed himself not long after his third trip over there.

So while I really miss being in and recommend staying in if you like it at all, it's more important to not commit yourself to any more time than you have to. You can always extend, but it's wrong to back out once you've committed.

Sure, politics was a motivation in attacking Iraq, but it was unavoidable regardless. Heck, I'd have sent some bombs to negotiate with Saddam the moment he breached the terms of his surrender treaty when he kicked out the weapons inspectors. His mind was writing checks his country couldn't cash.

And so our response was to do the same.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protes...t_the_Iraq_War

I had known what was up the second I watched the repeating video of an American flag on the top of a building drop straight as an arrow into a cloud of dust. I knew the construction was a composite of concrete core and stressed metal skin that should have torqued or leaned as it went down after a hit on one corner.

With the exception of the protesters everyone was just doing as they were told.

What flag? The link is a chronology of anti-war protests mostly.

At the time, I was for the war. In retrospect, it was a mistake. We should have let Saddam make the "presidential" decision between inspectors or bombs.

Insert a paragraph between the link and the obtuse reference to the American flag in free-fall.

"Not everyone is susceptible to the manufacture of consent. To me it was a re-run of the Killing of the King ceremony in 1962."

It is entirely possible this conversation has gone as far as it should.
 

While I am just happy we have civilly discussed my personal life without anyone telling me how messed up I am (I do not believe anyone commenting so far has done anything of the sort), now we are discussing politics, and that can easily get out of hand.

Active Duty or Reserve Select? I have never seen criticism of Reserve Select.

I feel like it has been years since I have heard anyone accept that popular opinion supported invasion at the time, just people insisting we never should have gone, often claiming they were always against it. I do not have any idea what the correct course of action was, it just feels wrong to not do anything.

We always had pallets of water bottles. The problem was the hours-long convoys when you need to drink all of that water. I never hurt my back, but bumped my head a few times. Don't worry, the VA says I am fine. I just missed a deposition this morning because I am a bad man.*

I was blessed to never hit an IED. We definitely had Soldiers who did, but MRAPs did their job.

We had IOTVs with side plates and all of our trucks came with plating.

I respected my leadership.

Contractors do make a great deal of money.

From what I understand, they initially thought it would be quick, easy, and glorious. They did not want to commit billions to equipment that would only be used a short period. Some have said they still held back, they should have bought thousands of M1117 Armored Security Vehicles, etc. I wish they had bought proper equipment all along.

I started this thread while sitting in Costco. I still have three and a half months left, but only one drill, and it seems like an abrupt end to eight years of my life. A woman asked me how to get out after signing up. I told her you can't, it is a serious commitment, but good opportunity, make the most of it, and things will be okay.

She was not satisfied.

I did not want to go to Afghanistan, but did not try to get out of it. I hated being there, but never understood why. I was extremely blessed, I carried a SAW 249, but never fired in-country, and as far as I know, nobody shot at me. I never hit an IED. I was never near any mortars or rocket attacks. As far as I know, I did not personally know anyone we lost. Sometimes the food was depressing, but some chow halls were great.

I did not give any reasons for hating it, did I? I wish that I knew! I have been home five years now and I have difficulty sleeping almost every night. I will call the VA and see if I can work a sleep study into my schedule.

I did my job to the best of my ability. I cannot think of anything I did to make the country any worse than when I arrived, while we worked with the Afghan National Army and the Afghan National Police to make it a safer place. We did micro-loans for members of the community. We provided farm tools. When I say "we," I was involved in each of those activities.

*My father passed away two years ago and I forgot my deposition for his malpractice suit. I absolutely needed to make enough reminders to ensure I was there. I failed, but the attorney says we can reschedule.

They might win, but I'd rather be happy and satisfied.

My grandpa is a rich and miserable old man. He will accidentally leave $3k in each pocket of a jacket he wears and then forget about it until the next time he wears it.

I'm competitive and want to win just about as much as anyone, but for some reason the rat race isn't among the races I have ever found appealing.

I consider racing to red lights and jostling positions on the freeway to be a rat race.

The eldest sister works for (a contractor for) Google. We do not discuss what we earn with her because we make more.

The second is a nurse practitioner, but seems to have a different employer every year. I mentioned my hourly wage and she said she made the same amount, but I am trying to get a raise, and her most recent employer is definitely not giving her enough hours. She and her husband bought a nice house five years ago and always purchase cars new, but they keep them several years.

I greatly want to live in her neighborhood, it is nice and everything but I want to see my family more often! It is always difficult to see homes for sale in her neighborhood, but one like hers cost a quarter million, and the payment at 4.5% would be $1,266.71!

I rent a room for around $320 monthly.

I would rather (eventually) purchase a certified used car and a house I can pay off in fifteen years.

Real estate is cheap out there. A quarter million buys a slightly below average 3-bedroom home out here. Zillow says my house is worth over $300k now, and I'm comfortably able to afford it on a $40k income with a payment (including taxes and insurance) very near to the monthly cost you mention. Then again, it helps that I rent out 2 rooms for $500 apiece including utilities.

Fixed low interest debt (mortgage) is a fantastic hedge against rapid inflation, which is likely in the coming years due to outrageous national debt and over-extended entitlements to baby boomers such as Medicare and Social Security. Writing off interest payments on federal taxes is icing on the cake.

Heck, my plan to pay for my wife's med school if I ran out of cash was to take out a Home Equity Line of Credit (HELOC). The interest rates are lower than student loans, the interest is tax deductible, and the debt can be dismissed in bankruptcy unlike student loans.

There is very little reason to take on other types of debt when home equity is easily accessible, except that some credit cards still offer zero interest for a year.

As with all things real estate, the most important things to consider are location, location, and location.

Was it something I said?

Same with World War I, and look at how that one turned out.

Consider moving to a state where you can legally self-medicate.

In my case, I was attached to the 2nd Civil Affairs Company. The first half of the tour, I had the company motor pool, but the 2nd half I lived in a province capital in a VN apartment building and we rode around looking at foot bridges and school houses being built, and distributing food and building materials. It was almost like being in the JFK's Peace Corps.

I was shot toward but no at. :)

Just that we started discussing politics and I worried that would get out of hand.

A townhome like the one I tried to purchase for $94,500 is now going for $112,000. That one only valuated at $79,000, though. It is in the same building or one over. Zillow does not give an estimate, but other homes in the neighborhood are going for the same price. There is a two-bedroom going for $80,000, although it has been up over a year. It looks pretty nice. The HOA is $138 monthly and includes water, sewer, garbage, and roof.

I had worried home values increased too much for me, but that is not horrible.

Fortunately, my advise is not intended for you.
But nice job in taking it out of context��

As long as we're giving advice, Miracle Max, avoid the two classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never buy into an HOA!"

Inconceivable!

Now they are looking for Soldiers of my MOS to fill in for six weeks in Tucson. There are a great many reasons this would be better suited for someone counting retirement points, but it is tempting.

Put on your skepticals and read the fine print.

If it is only six weeks, it's down to opportunity cost. What else could/would you do with those six weeks.

I am not sure how the pay would compare with my civilian job, but believe there are more long-term benefits to pursuing my chosen career, which pays me pretty well.

Two military service points to remember: (1) NEVER volunteer. (2) NEVER "stand out" (good or bad) to draw attention to yourself.

Of course, these points are EXACTLY opposite in CIVILIAN employment (wink,wink)!

No, the rule is always volunteer, it makes things more interesting and can open up a lot of opportunities. Only doing what you're told sucks- grabbing opportunities that come along breaks things up. Where it breaks down is in the reserve components, where outside life does that.

If you're not sure how the money would break down, it's not worth doing it for the money. I wouldn't want to toss my life to do full time for six weeks unless I were coming out squarely ahead moneywise or it were some really cool job that would be worth the experience no matter what you make on the outside.

Don't do it. You're already halfway checked out, focus on your real goals.

So, it felt like it was time to leave. Was it the right decision? I don't know. I miss serving, but there are some nice aspects of being out. I just wish that I had thought about staying in until I actually got into grad school.

Once you're out, the benefits look almost as good as they did before you went in. But when you were in, how easy was it to actually get any of the good things you were due?

The Army isn't set up for your benefit- even the units that exist for your benefit aren't set up for that: I've got a picture from 2005 of the door to Finance's trailer at our base. It said "Closed Today- Happy New Year!" To the slugs actually working it wasn't a holiday, it was just another day on the duty roster. If that was when they had half a down day and could get to Finance, they were SOL- those guys were on a pass in Kuwait. Probably telling stories about how tough it was up north.

It was a lot of fun, but it's over. Unless you're seriously considering going back in, it was the right decision.