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-   -   Shouty Kilmer hates start-stop technology (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/shouty-kilmer-hates-start-stop-technology-36392.html)

Xist 04-20-2018 11:14 PM

Shouty Kilmer hates start-stop technology
 
His old Celica didn't have it! Who needs 3-10% better fuel economy?!

Then something about rod bearings and starters wearing out and endless comments of people who want to carry his baby.

I never knew he was pregnant!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7524u5w4ZE

Piwoslaw 04-21-2018 12:58 AM

1 Attachment(s)
http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1524283053.jpg

SoobieOut 04-21-2018 01:27 AM

I would think that Shouty, as a mechanic, would see the obvious benefits of additional breakdowns and maintenance from start-stop systems.

1)Boat payments for the Mechanics weekend toys.
2)More traffic into his shop, maybe enabling him to buy more toys.
3)The additional complexity of the cars would force the inevitable switch to full electric vehicles. (This may reduce the number of hours the mechanic has to work since electric cars don't require as many repairs).

redpoint5 04-21-2018 02:04 AM

I don't have an opinion on the technology, except that on a Prius it makes complete sense because there isn't a dedicated starter. I've always wondered how it affects engine longevity though considering static friction is much higher than dynamic friction.

Never did like shouty. I've said as much in other videos you've shown of him. Well, I like everyone, but I like his videos the least.

EDIT: I decided to watch the video anyhow, and he made the same basic point I did concerning hybrids, which might explain why I don't like his videos; I just don't learn much from them, and the delivery is obnoxious at that.

jakobnev 04-21-2018 05:56 AM

My greatest complaint about stop-start is that it doesen't activate at higher speeds.

jamesqf 04-22-2018 02:48 AM

And why should I care, since I have absolutely no idea who this person is :-)

Xist 04-22-2018 05:13 AM

He is a mechanic on YouTube that shouts. I would rather watch Val, who has a far superior hairline.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 04-22-2018 10:52 PM

Even though I can understand why some people are afraid of starter failures with this device, it seems quite unavoidable nowadays. BTW those BAS-hybrid GM cars retained a dedicated starter for cold starts only, leaving the start-stop burden on the belted alternator-starter.

jamesqf 04-23-2018 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 567472)
He is a mechanic on YouTube that shouts.

(Sigh) You do realize that I really didn't want to know that, don't you?

Even so, why should I care what he thinks? I like start/stop myself ('00 Insight, owned since '03 or thereabouts), to the point that I'm vaguely annoyed when my other vehicles don't shut off when I'm stopped.

redpoint5 04-23-2018 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 567472)
I would rather watch Val, who has a far superior hairline.

My preference is Eric the Car Guy. He doesn't shout, seems to know quite a lot, and gets into great detail on how to do things.

niky 04-23-2018 03:39 AM

Cars with EOC are built for it. Mazda's is still the smoothest. Cylinder one primed to fire when the engine stops.

Mix that maybe with a small pneumatic reservoir to kick-start the engine... one that uses an accumulator to brake the engine to a stop... saves you extra wear on the starter motor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakobnev (Post 567382)
My greatest complaint about stop-start is that it doesen't activate at higher speeds.

Sadly, only a tiny percentage of start-stop equipped cars nowadays will shut off when coasting down to a stop.

I wish EOC was available from OEMs. Imagine an automatic-equipped car that switches off when coasting, and gently "bump starts" itself when you press on the gas pedal to overtake. :D

Xist 04-23-2018 05:03 AM

Eric is good. I think I have found fault with him, but I like to point out the video where he dissected components after someone used stop leak. He showed how it made everything worse. It might work, but it seemed unlikely.

Shouty has several videos promoting stop leak. Put together they might be as long as Eric's video.

"Should You Leave Your Car's Engine Idling? Myth Busted" I watched three minutes and he kept giving different scenarios. "It depends." Thanks.
"Why Not to Buy an Auction Car" You cannot properly inspect it.
"The Best and Worst First Cars to Buy" I quit three minutes in again. No clear conclusion.
"Why It's Dumb to Buy a Smart Car" I consider "dumb" to be a weak adjective, but he lists many problems with them.
He uses the same template for every video thumbnail. The same picture of him superimposed on some car.
"Why Not to Buy a Car with Stop/Start Technology" I am waiting to be impressed. Has he repaired cars that broke down due to start\stop? Apparently not.
"The Worst Mistakes I've Made Fixing Cars" I have tried to watch this a few times, but I know that when I have made mistakes I have tried to help others avoid doing the same things.
Like watching Shouty Kilmer videos... :)
"5 Things You Should Never Do in a Manual Transmission Car." I already watched "5 Things You Should Never Do In A Manual Transmission Vehicle" by Engineering Explained two years ago. It has 10M views.
"How to Increase Gas Mileage in Your Car"
Okay. I am done here.

jamesqf 04-23-2018 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niky (Post 567535)
Sadly, only a tiny percentage of start-stop equipped cars nowadays will shut off when coasting down to a stop.

Really? I though most if not all newer cars had DFCO? So they're essentially off (though still turning) when coasting to a stop, but turn themselves back on when you push in the clutch to stop.

Xist 04-23-2018 03:38 PM

DFCO has supposedly been standard since 1996, but I cannot find a regulation for it, and when I tried to ask people who should be able to find it, I did not get anywhere.

Vman455 04-23-2018 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niky (Post 567535)
I wish EOC was available from OEMs. Imagine an automatic-equipped car that switches off when coasting, and gently "bump starts" itself when you press on the gas pedal to overtake. :D

The VW XL1 is, to my knowledge, the only production or limited-production car to have this feature. Yet another reason that, given the opportunity, I would buy one in a heartbeat regardless of price.

redpoint5 04-23-2018 05:15 PM

There isn't any difference between EOC and DFCO in terms of fuel use. Both methods stop fuel from being injected into the engine. In EOC, the engine is stopped, so it's not turning anymore. In DFCO, the engine is still being turned because it's still engaged by the transmission, yet no fuel is being injected. This is why downshifting slows the car down. If it were injecting fuel then it would produce power rather than absorb it.

The advantage of EOC is that it doesn't bleed speed by turning the engine, so you can coast at a higher speed up until the point you have to slow down or stop. With DFCO, the vehicle slows down sooner because it's wasting energy turning the engine.

teoman 04-23-2018 05:33 PM

I wish the start stop features were programmable.

They are to some extent ( batt voltage - engine temp) but not speed as far as i know.

Xist 04-23-2018 06:58 PM

I like DFCO for hills steepr than those I can EoC down.

niky 04-25-2018 04:00 AM

I prefer the longer glide distances of EOC.

In the Prius, if I recall, you can toggle "Brake" and "Drive" modes while coasting, which allows you to either EOC or Regenerative Brake down to a stop.

Ecky 04-25-2018 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakobnev (Post 567382)
My greatest complaint about stop-start is that it doesen't activate at higher speeds.

How's 70mph? ;)

https://i.imgur.com/QLKalvD.jpg

redpoint5 04-25-2018 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niky (Post 567704)
I prefer the longer glide distances of EOC.

In the Prius, if I recall, you can toggle "Brake" and "Drive" modes while coasting, which allows you to either EOC or Regenerative Brake down to a stop.

The standard Prius will EOC below about 44 MPH, and the plug in version can be manually toggled to EV mode below 61 MPH.

Xist 04-25-2018 12:27 PM

Start-stop while moving, that sounds like DFCO or EOC and then a bump-start.

jamesqf 04-26-2018 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ecky (Post 567713)
How's 70mph? ;)

Did you actually get it to activate at 70? I never could get it to activate above the 18 mph or so limit, but if I came to a stop on a downhill, so the autostop activated, I could coast up to 40 mpg or better before the engine would kick on again.

Ecky 04-26-2018 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesqf (Post 567858)
Did you actually get it to activate at 70? I never could get it to activate above the 18 mph or so limit, but if I came to a stop on a downhill, so the autostop activated, I could coast up to 40 mpg or better before the engine would kick on again.

Natalya makes a small PCB which feeds the ECU a ~2mph signal for a moment, which causes auto-stop to kick in at any speed, and doesn't affect the FCD (because it calculates MPG and shows speed without the ECU). It will stay in auto-stop until you throw the car back into gear. Just put it on a relay with a button near your shifter and you have auto-stop whenever you'd like.

:D

Vman455 04-26-2018 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redpoint5 (Post 567714)
The standard Prius will EOC below about 44 MPH, and the plug in version can be manually toggled to EV mode below 61 MPH.

46mph on deceleration, 42mph under acceleration. But the 4th gen will turn the engine off up to 62mph, which is why regular drivers get so much better mileage with them vs. earlier Priuses.


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