side-cameras?
 

I tried searching the site and found nothing much. I tried googling and I only found rear-view backup cams for moms in suv's who can't drive.

Anybody have any info on a side-mirror replacement camera? I'm thinking 4"-7" screens on each side of my steering wheel and cams either mounted in the stock location, or on the fenders above my wheels.

Hi Matt,

I've looked into this (there is a thread on it), and all the units I found were backup cameras, so, only one camera and one screen. There is a model sold at WalMart that uses Bluetooth -- and using two at once is impossible, since the RF would interfere with each other.

Are you sure? Bluetooth is a multi-frequency hopping standard. If bluetooth didn't work well in proximity, all the pretencious douchebags downtown with the stupid things in their ears would hear eachother's conversations.

Could you link the wal-mart thing? I'm interested.

I've also been thinking about this a lot lately, and I hope that yahya will chime in since I know he's looked into it. I tried searching on insightcentral but it seemed to no avail, *shrug*

I believe the initial subject was mirror deletes for the prior thread. The question then becomes power for screens and cameras, data transmission from camera to screen, legality of such replacement (I never got an answer from the person I asked), and visibility/field of vision/etc.

Assuming it's legal to do so in your area/state/country, and that it works fine at night/in the rain/etc. then the next thing to worry about is the data transmission. Wireless has issues with frequency (google up data on rear view cameras and baby monitors for instance) so I would only use a wired connection.

Next is power: will the system's power consumption put enough strain on the battery to increase alternator usage and will the Cd savings of the mirror delete be enough to offset any increase? Also, it would need to be connected to main power so it still functions during EOC or other engine off times (ie, getting out of the car on a busy street).

For location I would put the cameras in the stock mirror locations for simplicity. I would also have small screens in the door corners because that's where I'm used to looking and anyone else who would end up driving my car for whatever reason wouldn't be confused.

But anywho, I haven't seen anything marketed as a sideview mirror replacement. It's likely due to questionable legality as the law is always slow to catch up with technology, but as vehicles like the Aptera become prevalent that may be cleared up.

Yeah, my biggest questions were also legallity, rain and night. As for location, i'd honestly opt to mount them over my wheels in a little "bubble". You'd get much better visibility of the cars beside me (no more blidspot).

My neck still works, so i'm not concerned about stuff like getting out of the car on a busy street.

Power consumption... good question. I would expect very little, but I will look up some stats on wattage for a small screen and a camera.

totally random selection:
2.5", 12V@90mA = 1W
3.5", 12V@350mA = 4.2W
6.2", 12V@650mA = 7.8W

This was all from one page, no search was done for "low power" screens.
Housed LCD Monitors from 2.5" to 15.4".

I will keep searching for small cameras for wattage. It is looking pretty good, so far.

here is some random camera with 1.8W consumption.

MobileVideo4Less.com: NEW! Flush Mount InfraRed Night Vision Color 1/4" CCD Keyhole Camera

So, a total system cost of about 10W and about 5 pounds of wiring, mounting, equipment.

So how much power is used by a pair of mirrors at 100km/h? (someone with more FE experience can field that Q)

10 watts isn't enough to give a damn about, so that's good news, :p

Hiya,

Here's the EM thread with the link to Walmart's camera:
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...drag-2888.html

And here's a direct link to the camera:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=4744711

The camera would have to have it's bracket cut off, of course. You "just" need to power the camera(s) with 12v -- it is set up to work off of the license plate light, I think.

That is quickly climbing the list as the next mod I am going to do. As far as placement I am going outside the box for this.

I am going to mount my cameras low on the door around the area of the door handle, just lower, for a simple reason. Without mirrors backing into spaces becomes more difficult as far as detecting space lines etc ..

Therefore A camera set lower can become a park assist as well while detecting large objects in its field of vision. I still double check with a head check before changing lanes.

As far as Johnny Law, he has to be really bored to pull me over for something as trivial as a mirror violation, in the end, I may tap one of the mirror plates and carry a bicycle mirror in case they want to be pricks, I'll just screw in a mirror and remove it at the next intersection ..

If I find any that are worh while I'll post them with links..

Only thing the law cares about for most states is a driver-side mirror and a rearview. If you play prevention and don't give them a reason to stop you, you may be fine. In my town there are quite a few mandatory DUI checkpoints around town once a month or when a holiday comes up.

When I have 6-8 cops looking over my car and I'm already stopped that's just a ticket waiting to happen if I don't have the mirrors present. :o

Hi,

Saab is using side cameras on the 9X BioHybrid car:

YouTube - Efficiency at Work

I wonder why the prototype Saab (like nearly every car I see) still insists on traditional fog well "divots" and not a more aerodynamic shell or covering over it?

check out
Coslinger special HPV streamliner recumbent bicycle
halfway down there is a picture of their video system and a link to a source.

Al

IC is not the greatest place to look for mods. Its great for bragging about MPG though :rolleyes:

I never did it due to funds, but the model I checked into was a RoadMaster VR3 back up camera. The newest one comes with a 3.5" color LCD screen. You won't be able to count the paint chips on the car next to you but you'll be able to tell its there. Lens is a fish eye setup and its integral to the cam. I didn't see it as too much of a down side as I use my mirrors to get an overall view of my surroundings not as blind spot checking. Its got an RF range of around 20ft and is capable of transmitting over a couple of channels so you could run two at once. The LCD plugs into your 12v and the cam you splice into your back up lights or some 12v source. Since the receiver is mounted in the LCD and the cams are going to be used as mirrors, you are talking about a receiver-transmitter distance of 8ft tops, so the signal should be more than strong enough.

Legally out here in Cali you need your rear view and your driver side mirror. Never really been bothered about it in the Jeep and from what I have heard, you just need them where they should be, whether they are actually functional isn't that big of a deal.

http://metroxfi.com/wp-content/uploa...0330-thumb.jpg http://metroxfi.com/wp-content/uploa...0331-thumb.jpg http://metroxfi.com/wp-content/uploa...0333-thumb.jpg

Mine was pretty cheap, $25 for the camera and the 3.5" screen for $53

I did it by cutting off the base of the stock mirror then using a tube that the cameras fit inside to fiberglass into the base. After the fiberglass was strong enough I filled and smoothed it with lightweight body filler before painting it. They work pretty good and give a lot wider range than a normal mirror. The passenger side screen is a bit small but it gets the job done. Drivers side works great. Only bad thing is I have only managed to put 125 miles on the car since putting them on :( I need to get out and drive some more :)

Cameras won't cut it in Canada. The best you can do is get rid of the passenger side mirror and downsize the driver side mirror as long as it meets the minimal specs.

Canada's motor vehicle safety act:

so... there goes that idea. I can't believe that someone would put that much effort into the description of a mirror... and not consider "other sighting devices".

Remember these laws were put into place long before the technology came about. I would take the chance and if stopped then take the data to the courts explaining the benefits to the technology. Not the aero-side, but the advantages of eliminating blind spots, better visibility, etc..

Eventually these laws will be updated, some one however has to be the sacrificial lamb.

I suppose if i put a small mirror inside my driver's side window, like against the A-pillar, then it would comply enough to tell a cop to go away... I'll keep it in mind. I think mirrors should be mounted more forward like old sportscars, so if i did a cam setup, it would be in my fenders above the wheels. No more blidspot :)

BTW, Coyote, nice work! I wouldn't put hte screen on the other side of the car though, seems pointless. I suppose it gets your head turning to check your blindspot, though. Should have installed it in the fender!

I totally agree with that. The fine for such an infraction must not be all that high. In which case it would be worthwhile to get one an challenge it just to raise awareness on the shortcomings of the current law.

I think the original post was deleted from IC. The owner claims to want to run it as a nice site for insight drivers but all I ever here is how he deletes stuff and bans people, :p

Roll the dice and sack the mirrors or play it low key and still have them in spirit. Wow... that is pretty detailed for just mirrors! :eek:

from California

Jersey law is driver's side and rear-view mandatory, passenger side if the rear-view is blocked. I've gotten no problems from my passenger delete (though it really just looks like accident carnage at the moment).

An internal mirror would serve the same purpose, but I'd prefer the outside view and position adjustment that could come from an external video mount. Heck, if I could hook up the existing electric controls to change viewing angle...

Found this site for a rather convenient argument for video over mirrors (at least for those who prefer to allow computers to think for them): LINK

Thanks for this bit of info. I'm deleting my passenger side for the drive home.

Hi,

That's awesome stuff -- almost exactly what I was thinking of.

How wide a view does the camera have? How is it at night (with the IR LED's)? Can you move the righthand screen closer to the driver, so you can see it better?

Can you please post a picture showing what the monitors look like from the driver's position? In the pictures above it looks like the passenger side screen is recessed into the glove box, and that can't be the way it is since you couldn't see the screen while driving.

How does the camera do when the sun is setting directly behind the car? That's a problem with normal side mirrors (causing a blinding reflection), here, might it damage the camera?

Good question. Also, how does it fair at night and in the rain, or rain AT night?

The angle is way better than a normal mirror. The angle it is sitting at shows the side of the car pretty much up to the angle you see out the window while looking at the screen so it gives great coverage. The IR things are all but useless at night. They can show stuff about 15ft away at best. The limited use I have had at night with them it isn't an issue because you can always see the marker lights or headlights just fine. Haven't had the sun shining directly at them since the sun doesn't do that around here but it really doesn't hurt a ccd sensor to point it at the sun other than it just washes out the image. So the screen would probably just show solid white but that will be a lot less glare than a mirror.

I have replaced the dash vents and put the screens in the openings. The glove box is under that panel. The cables that come with it are pretty long, like 20' so it could be mounted anywhere. Somewhere closer to the driver would be much better but a metro has a very small dash and I didn't have anywhere else I could put it :)

i would think the cost would be way more than anything eventually saved with slight FE gains???

Anybody care to post before/after FE for a simple mirror delete? This would be the same thing, but the cost goes towards the safety factor.

I had a .6 mpg improvement tank-to-tank after my passenger delete, but isn't exactly reliable data. Anyone with a gauge that can do an A-B-A test? Did Metro do one already?

on the same link that coyotee bought his cameras and screens is a back up camera with monitor in rearview and it has a remote xy angle adjustment for $109 I think it is www.gooddeals18.com/product/plcm5800

Hi,

I am very tempted to buy these for my car! How's the wiring done -- just plug the screen into the camera and power them up? Do both the camera nd he screen need their own power connection?

TIA

Maybe that's something to work on there. Rather than having a fisheye lens or pinhole, the camera should have a similar field of view that a mirror would provide, and have adjustment controls like power mirrors have. Even better would be adjustable aperture for night/day driving! I suppose you could do that electronically rather than mechanically.

That ought to satisfy some of the Man's objections at least.

I have since deleted my passenger side mirror and the only problem I'm having is backing in to spaces with visibility on that side.

As a fix, when I go to camera I will likely mount them in the front fenders recessed like an exhaust vent and low in the fender in order to see the ground and things like parking lines and such.

For now I will mount both screen directly in front of me @ the windshield so they are always in my line of site.

Hi,

I've been contemplating using the adjustments on the stock mirror. But if you think about it, using a camera eliminates the need to make any adjustments -- since the purpose of adjusting the mirror is so different drivers can see the mirror. With a camera and screen, the equivalent adjustment would be on the screen, not the camera.

With a decent resolution fisheye camera, you could "unfisheye" the camera picture in software and pan up and down, left and right, on the monitor (and stabilize the picture), without introducing mechanical components that would be more prone to failure than their software counterparts.

My new video cameras and screens arrived -- and boy the cameras are really small! They are about 5/8" in diameter x about 7/8" long. The holes in the mounting bracket are about 1 1/8" apart. I am going to have to try them out, but if they work well, or are better than my current cameras, I will make some fiberglass replacements for the stock mirror bases.

And, the screens did not come with stands, but I have stands from the old screens that should work.