Small / economy car deathwatch: we've passed "peak econobox" again

[freebeard]

JACG: Since 2022, when Carvana stock sunk to record lows, the company's stock has surged 8,000 percent and nearly doubled throughout the course of 2025

That performance has resulted in the used vehicle seller being added to the benchmark S&P 500 index, a move that will take place later this month, and it marks a dramatic turnaround for Carvana, in general.

However, what's particularly notable about this performance is the fact that Carvana's market cap now stands at a whopping $87 billion - more than Ford at $52 billion, and even General Motors at $71 billion.

https://fordauthority.com/2025/12/ca...and-skyrockets

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

The Jeep Wrangler also now starts at over $50,000. So it's a good thing you don't need to go to those places.

For me, I don't either. But it would be nice if I could.

The Wrangler starts at $35,000 and there are plenty of used ones for sale in the $10K range. Also a very simple vehicle so easy to work on .

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by JSH

The Wrangler starts at $35,000

Then why does their website say the MSRP starts at $49,895?

[redpoint5]

Those without plenty of extra cash and time should not be looking at Jeep. I've owned one; it wasn't good.

[freebeard]

If I had 'plenty of extra cash and time' it would be a Philippine Jeep-in-a-box with an electric motor on a Powerglide transmission. And a solar hardtop that hinges forward at the top of the windshield.

[redpoint5]

I've got "plenty" of extra cash, and haven't bought anything.

Well, I did finally get a 3D printer for $225. Nothing in particular I want to do with it, but I figured "If I buy it, the projects will come".

I asked Grok what EV side-by-side 6-seater options there were, and it somewhat hallucinated.

Amp Crew Cab


Grok feels the need to give 5 options regardless of meeting the constraints imposed upon it. I can eventually beat it into submission by telling it that a null-set is acceptable if nothing meets criteria, and that the number of options is unimportant compared to adhering to strict criteria.

Nobody makes just what I'm looking for at the moment. Might have to make it myself.

[freebeard]

Well, I did finally get a 3D printer for $225. Nothing in particular I want to do with it, but I figured "If I buy it, the projects will come".

Does it have a Bowden tube? The Bowden tube on my Ender 3 is a continuing source of trouble. Once I've paid off that EV, I want to upgrade to a direst drive extruder: Ender 3 (Pro/V2) Direct Drive Upgrade: Step-By-Step DIY Guide

Then I can get back to printing center caps and lug nut caps for the Superbeetle.


http://www.stlfinder.com/model/param...0Tco0K/6536493

[rmay635703]

Kei cars have been semi legalized, sadly not for import by you or me

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

Then why does their website say the MSRP starts at $49,895?
Attachment 35772

Poor wording. The model shown starts at $49,895. Click through on Build Your Wrangler and you will find this.

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Those without plenty of extra cash and time should not be looking at Jeep. I've owned one; it wasn't good.

What era and model? Modern Jeep products are crap. The old ones with the inline 4 / 6 and almost no options were decent and I know plenty of people with positive experiences with them.

[Ecky]

Just my humble opinion, but I'd lean more toward the Suzuki in terms of reliability and build quality, and they're half the price even brand new. I can't say whether they match the Jeep's offroad chops, but the Suzuki does offer a 5 speed manual with a low range, and has a tow rating.