So, if we do screw up, the plants will be ok
 

http://video.aol.com/partner/cbs/sav...VO_bPEjYZdvVep

The "doomsday vault" as they're calling it. It's a seed bank, so in case we don't get this mess straightened up and fry our food supply, when temperatures do return to normal, we will be able to get a second chance.

Whose gonna open the vault?

i heard about that project a long-long time ago, how long has it taken to get underway??

I was going to write a big long post on this. But, instead I will ask a question or two.

What temperature is "normal"? And who decides what that temperature is? How will we maintain it when it is reached?

I do think it is a good idea to keep a seed repository though. Perhaps some of the stock can be rotated?

I do so hate reading the New York Times. They usually only print one side of a story. I like to see both sides. But this one stands out because it is full of objectivity...

Here are the last two paragraphs, and I will also post the link...

In his commentary, Dr. White wrote: "We humans have built a remarkable socioeconomic system during perhaps the only time when it could be built, when climate was sufficiently stable to allow us to develop the agricultural infrastructure required to maintain an advanced society. We don't know why we have been so blessed, but even without human intervention, the climate system is capable of stunning variability.

"If the Earth came with an operating manual, the chapter on climate might begin with a caveat that the system has been adjusted at the factory for optimum comfort, so don't touch the dials."

I added the bold for what I think is important.

Study of Greenland Ice Finds Rapid Change in Past Climate

It took me a few minutes to realize you were NOT being sarcastic.
Dr. White will doubtless be branded a tool of big oil by the usual suspects. ;)

I agree, he isn't following the "CONcensus".

Thanks! I appreciate that. There is far too much one sided reporting in journalism these days. How we need a Mark Twain or a Will Rogers today.

Sorry to hijack the thread...

It's cool man, I'm glad you brought it up. I'm one of the people who thinks that we are a factor but I'm educated enough to know we're not the sole problem/cause of it. I've seen the graphs and I've seen the essays and I've come to the conclusion that we are going through one of those massive changes in climate, but I don't think it's like before 100%, I can almost with complete certainty guarantee we have at least something to do with it. The temperatures these days is just so much higher then in past times that there can only be to reasons, either we are pumping crap into the atmosphere with our machines or it's just the fact that the CO2 being produced by all the humans in the world is far more then it used to be. Either way, I think we are not necessarily approaching a heat wave of the century, I think it's going to start cooling down, and rapidly...the movie, "the day after tomorrow" comes to mind no?

Anyway, yea, just thought i'd post it and see what you guys take of it.

You know, I actually wrote about 5 different responses earlier, all of which might have been seen as imflammatory. We don't need that. I don't feel like being banned or suspended either. Yelling and name calling just doesn't get anything done.

I do not believe MAN is capable of reversing what I see as a natural occurence. Did we help get here? I just don't know. Don't forget that the sun is a big influence. And the lack of sunspots could indeed bring the temps down. To think the sun has no effect on our climate is just plain silly.

Look, I drive an evil SUV... I make no apology. I am trying to conserve fuel, and energy where I can. It is the right thing for me to do. Fiscally. Oh how I'd love to get 25 MPG from the Jeep. But my last tank for the Neon was 34 MPG. The best I've ever recorded for the little car.

But I think the government needs to get back from the whole debate until there is some real science done. Not the "science" driven by the UN's panel... Look what has happened to prices since food (corn) was tied to fuel...

Ok, I think I got lost somewhere...not sure what all the fuss is about.

:turtle:

I wonder how much of the intention to build a seed repository was political. Noah's Arks is a widely famous and well understood story. Maybe they figured people would take notice that a lifeboat was being built?

- LostCause

what evil suv, i know about the wonderful piece of american machinery which gets better gas mileage than my jeep :thumbup: . and honestly, i would rather see a bunch of people trying to conserve fuel in suvs than a bunch of people driving like maniacs in smaller vehicles than mine and getting either worse mpg or not much better.

and whatever your reasons for trying to conserve fuel, its ok, some of us are concerned about having a negative affect on the environment, some of us for our health, and some of us for our wallets, and of course any mixture there of. we're just happy your here :)

well said johnpr.

My initial motivation for doing this whole hypermiling thing was to save some money. Now, as a 80% bicycle commuter I appreciate that health benefits as well. I'm saving a ton of fuel by riding my bike and since I started doing it, I haven't lost any weight, but I have to force myself to wake up and go to bed early, which is something I've been meaning to do for a long time but have had no reason to do until recently. It seems to also give me more energy, as much as I hate dragging my ass onto the bike every morning at 7 AM after being used to sleeping till noon, I have found that after a few minutes my body is awake and then once I get to work and col down a bit, I have much more energy to sustain the rest of the day. I also know the weight thing will come. Right now I'm at the heaviest I've been in over 6 years and back when I first started riding midway through highschool, I dropped almost 50 pounds by riding just 20 miles a day for one summer...just 3 months. So, I expect the weight to start coming off again and on days like today, not driving earned me money as I found $5 in a parking lot while waiting for a break in traffic to cross the busy road.

good find :thumbsup: , yep the weight thing will come, as you have already seen persistence pays off in many ways

Two articles that suggest the global cooling proponents of the 70's might have been right. Unfortunately. ;)

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog...nspot-mys.html
http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com...-dives-in-may/

If we get a little ice age, that is really going to suck. A buddy of mine is going to get a fully automatic, self feeding, coal fired boiler this summer, his payback on the heating cost will be about 1.5 years. :eek: I went with him to look at it, it feeds the coal up from underneath with a worm screw like a meat grinder, and burns it on the top surface. Amazing. It is called an "underfeed retort" type burner. Made by EFM. I looked up the patents for "underfeed retort" on google patents and they go back to 1909. The last patent is 1945.

I use so little heating oil a year (due to air sealing and insulating) that the payback period for me would be a long, long time...