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-   -   So you want to talk up your new fuel-saving product on EcoModder... (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/so-you-want-talk-up-your-new-fuel-15251.html)

MetroMPG 11-22-2010 04:13 PM

So you want to talk up your new fuel-saving product on EcoModder...
 
1 Attachment(s)
More than a couple of times now, someone has signed up to use the forum to promote their latest gizmo that supposedly saves some fantastic amount of fuel. (I can think of four or five.)

Unfortunately, this plan hasn't always unfolded as smoothly as the promoter hoped.

So the interest of avoiding future tears and hurt feelings, the purpose of this thread is to lay out & discuss EcoModder's guidelines for promoters/vendors, and let them know what we expect of them, and what they can expect from us if they want to talk up their stuff.


1. We want evidence.
  • EcoModders are generally a skeptical bunch. (That's a good thing!) That doesn't mean we can't be friendly & respectful, but don't expect us to take your claims at face value and embrace your product without question.
  • The amount and quality of evidence we'd like to see will generally be proportional to (a) how fantastic your product's claims are, and (b) how well understood the science is behind it. In other words, realize that:

    "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
  • Because you're selling something, expect to be held to a higher standard of evidence than the average hobbyist/enthusiast talking about his/her latest modification. (They're not trying to separate other people's hard-earned money from their wallets.)

2. Customer testimonials don't count as evidence.
  • Your typical customer may not have the ability, knowledge or desire to control as many variables as possible to rigorously test the effect of your product.
  • A large number of testimonials doesn't cancel out the weakness of testimonial evidence.

    So, while we may be happy to hear that your entire circle of family and friends thinks your product is the best thing since sliced bread, respectfully, it still doesn't count. It's still not science-based evidence.

3. Media reports about your product don't count as evidence
.
  • Exposure doesn't equal proof. There's no shortage of reporters who are clueless about the scientific method and are eager to report "exciting" news to the world.

4. Don't expect us to do your basic research
  • Since you're the one hoping to separate people's money from their wallets, it's your responsibility to demonstrate that what you're promoting is accurate.
  • "Try it yourself if you don't believe me" is no substitute for doing your own homework. Also, it's a classic snake oil sales pitch.
  • Of course, you're welcome to invite members of the forum to evaluate or review your product. Some of us might even take you up on the offer out of sheer curiosity. But just because we like solid data, that doesn't mean our members can automatically produce it. Not everyone has the time, facilities or interest to do a proper evaluation.
---

Feel free to misinterpret the healthy skepticism you may encounter in the forum as "closed-mindedness", unwillingness to accept The Truth, or collusion with The Man.

At that point, you'll probably go away. But remember you're welcome back when you've got some solid 3rd party evidence to present.

Until then, without acceptable proof, we won't allow you to post links to your web site, or testimonial YouTube videos, etc., etc.

Good luck with your business.

---

See also: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ery-11445.html

Angmaar 11-22-2010 04:31 PM

Thank you, hopefully more scammers will see this!

MetroMPG 11-22-2010 04:36 PM

Well it won't prevent new ones from signing up & posting.

But at least we can point them here afterward so they'll see why we're asking so many durned questions and not automatically giving out our credit card numbers. :)

Tango Charlie 11-22-2010 04:51 PM

I make a motion to Sticky-fy.

ConnClark 11-22-2010 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tango Charlie (Post 205669)
I make a motion to Sticky-fy.

I second the motion

MetroMPG 11-22-2010 04:54 PM

I'm thinking ... maybe we have too many stickies.

Besides, I bet you a dollar they won't bother reading it anyway, in all the excitement of joining to tell us about their new product!!

Rokeby 11-22-2010 05:32 PM

Great idea. :thumbup:

I doubt it will work, but ya gotta start somewhere.

I would suggest that as soon as a post/thread is determined to be a sales pitch it be moved to either the For Sale forum, or even the Off Topic Forum if it's clearly bogus... "I've got some magic beans."

mcrews 11-22-2010 06:05 PM

nice

d0sitmatr 11-22-2010 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG (Post 205671)
Nah, too many stickies.

Besides, I bet you a dollar they won't bother reading it anyway, in all the excitement of joining to tell us about their new product!!

you could make it a requirement for new members to read and click a radiobox saying they have read it and understand.

SVOboy 11-23-2010 01:02 AM

Well said, d-man.

mcrews 11-23-2010 01:09 AM

do we really want to run off the 'red meat'??????

I'm still savoring the last one that jumped in the pit!!!!! lol

Mustang Dave 11-23-2010 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcrews (Post 205774)
do we really want to run off the 'red meat'??????

I'm still savoring the last one that jumped in the pit!!!!! lol

Same here! :D

Rokeby 11-23-2010 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcrews (Post 205774)
do we really want to run off the 'red meat'??????
I'm still savoring the last one that jumped in the pit!!!!! lol

http://dontmesswithtaxes.typepad.com...patience_2.jpg

deathtrain 11-13-2011 12:31 PM

Another forum i was on had the same issue. What they did was made them pay to sell anything on the forum. it was something like $10 a year to become a vendor. So the forums would un ass their money before they tried to get ours. That stopped a lot of the stupid ones and the ones that would do it got eaten by us. So it was a when/when for everyone.

MetroMPG 11-14-2011 11:52 AM

First thought: what a great idea! (Rubs hands together at the thought of sponsor money!)

Second thought: one of the things these "vendors" hope to achieve by posting here is taking advantage of EcoModder's hard-earned good rankings with the search engines to seed links back to their own garbage web sites.

So I'm still inclined to just say "go away unless you have quality evidence to show."

user removed 11-14-2011 04:00 PM

The true cost of innovation
 
The spark of innovation began in 1999. The process took 5 years to materialize into something that had enough legitimacy to pursue a Patent.
The first Patent process was a nightmare of mistakes by the Patent Office and in the process the second configuration was conceived and after a decade, a Patent was finally issued.

Tens of thousands of dollars in legal cost, a prototype that worked but was poorly executed by a machinist whose priority was funding his business.

There are hundreds of examples of innovation, where the spark of the same innovation, cost the individual their wealth, their lives, and also cost their families dearly for their pursuit of something that changed our lives today in ways we could not imagine at the initial point of that same innovation.

Sadly many innovators, knowing the low odds of ever achieving financial success, when such success is richly deserved, never pursue their dreams to the point where that dream transcends the threshold of success.

I know this thread is not about what I have posted here. I just wanted to show the "other side of the coin" when it comes to real innovation. I have never asked anyone for financial, assistance. People of integrity understand that outside financing brings on significantly greater expectations of progress and deadlines are set that seem to make every step in the process excruciatingly difficult.

Anyway, enough rambling from a beat up Old Mechanic. It doesn't take much to figure out when someone is trying to use this site for quick personal gain without substantial evidence to support their claims.

regards
Mech

Clev 11-14-2011 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deathtrain (Post 270192)
Another forum i was on had the same issue. What they did was made them pay to sell anything on the forum. it was something like $10 a year to become a vendor. So the forums would un ass their money before they tried to get ours. That stopped a lot of the stupid ones and the ones that would do it got eaten by us. So it was a when/when for everyone.

I like this better: you want to become a vendor? Be prepared to send a free sample/loaner to one of us to use in some "real" A/B/A testing. I don't believe customer testimonials, but I'll believe real testing from somebody on this forum who already knows how to get proven results. And no web links until you're vetted.

Guaranteed that will solve the problem.

RustyLugNut 11-16-2012 12:44 PM

Or run a "Pinks" style competition.
 
Find a good testing ground and Vendor and Forum members show up to test said vendors wares in an A-B-A test.

The Vendor puts up a small but not insignificant amount of money equivalent to a year of advertising space here on Ecomodder. If they win, they get their money back and the advertising space they crave. If they lose, they forfeit the monies for wasting everyone's time and then suffer the ignominious abuse on this forum.

BikerModder 11-21-2014 05:42 PM

Production of Money Device
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Angmaar (Post 205664)
Thank you, hopefully more scammers will see this!

Can you really steal your own? I mean I came on the forum a year or two before new members. "Too" I too wanted an engine mod but maybe the thinking was Engine Mods go to Eco Modding >central > aerodynamics and stuff. Not specific enough. and I don't know where it mattered but I got goofed up by coming here if I can't share. It is like using your hands to art. Maybe the Midwest gas stops are more important for those type mods I do but I do draft mods too or Art. Maybe blase blah.

user removed 11-30-2015 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Mechanic (Post 270358)
The spark of innovation began in 1999. The process took 5 years to materialize into something that had enough legitimacy to pursue a Patent.
The first Patent process was a nightmare of mistakes by the Patent Office and in the process the second configuration was conceived and after a decade, a Patent was finally issued.

Tens of thousands of dollars in legal cost, a prototype that worked but was poorly executed by a machinist whose priority was funding his business.

There are hundreds of examples of innovation, where the spark of the same innovation, cost the individual their wealth, their lives, and also cost their families dearly for their pursuit of something that changed our lives today in ways we could not imagine at the initial point of that same innovation.

Sadly many innovators, knowing the low odds of ever achieving financial success, when such success is richly deserved, never pursue their dreams to the point where that dream transcends the threshold of success.

I know this thread is not about what I have posted here. I just wanted to show the "other side of the coin" when it comes to real innovation. I have never asked anyone for financial, assistance. People of integrity understand that outside financing brings on significantly greater expectations of progress and deadlines are set that seem to make every step in the process excruciatingly difficult.

Anyway, enough rambling from a beat up Old Mechanic. It doesn't take much to figure out when someone is trying to use this site for quick personal gain without substantial evidence to support their claims.

regards
Mech

Apparently there may be some funding coming my way. With a personal financial commitment approaching $50k plus, we may have a little help from Virginia Tech and some govt agencies, to the tune of $50-100k. The process of really making a difference is absolutely brutal. My patent was issued 8 months before this original post was made late in 2010.

I have not belabored this forum with my thoughts about this process and I will start a new thread if the funding opportunity actually materializes. Too many "oh what a great ideas" then not a single additional move, remark, comment, or even a criticism after a contact was established. Like a bottomless pit of information dissemination into a black hole.

Wish me luck.
mech

Daox 11-30-2015 01:33 PM

Good luck.

Xist 11-30-2015 05:40 PM

Good luck!

Stink 05-11-2017 10:36 AM

10 mpg. unacceptable
 
I have an aluminum cargo trailer 14'x7' v nose single axle, weighs about 2000# that I converted into a camper. I pull it with a chevy traverse. I've had it for a couple years and get 10 mpg. Now I tried vortex generators which didn't improve gas mileage but they did make it more stable. So I put a tail on the trailer. I haven't tried it out yet but I'd sure like to hear any thoughts, suggestions or criticism.

Thanks, I tried to get a picture but the file is too big, any suggestions?

BabyDiesel 05-11-2017 01:40 PM

Stink, you would have much better success by copying this post and starting a new thread in Ecomodding Central or possibly the Aerodynamics section :)

Also, to get a picture uploaded onto EM, use a photo hosting site such as Photobucket, PostImage or onto your EM profile. Then get the direct link from said site, copy and paste link into the Add Pic dialog box and done!

If you have more questions, don't hesistate to ask me or one of the other moderators, Daox and MetroMPG, and we will try and help the best we can :)

Stink 05-11-2017 01:58 PM

Thank you
 
Hey, thanks for the reply. You should understand that I'm a 60 year old guy, I'm doing this on my iPad, I don't know what a photobucket is,but I looked around on your site and it got me thinking, so I modified my trailer and would like to get a picture (which is worth a thousand words) out and get some opinions.

I"ll see what I can do

Thank you.

BabyDiesel 05-11-2017 02:03 PM

Thank you for explaining yourself sir. How about this - send me the picture in email. I will upload it for you later today after work. All I ask is to start a new thread in the aerodynamics section.

I'm PM'ing my email address to you now.

You're welcome sir! :)

guudasitgets 07-02-2017 12:07 AM

Thanks

442hybrid 09-05-2018 10:00 PM

Old mod magnets to separate fuel molicules
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by guudasitgets (Post 544399)
Thanks

Has anybody researched this and found any truth to them,it's a round magnet that hooks to the fuel line and claims to separate the fuel molicules to help improve fuel mpgs

Mustang Dave 09-06-2018 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 442hybrid (Post 578158)
Has anybody researched this and found any truth to them,it's a round magnet that hooks to the fuel line and claims to separate the fuel molicules to help improve fuel mpgs

Since no one has bothered to reply yet, I will. It has been proven to NOT make any difference in fuel economy.

The modification that has been proven to make the largest improvement in fuel economy is "adjusting the nut behind the steering wheel". :)

Mustang Dave 06-15-2021 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christion4 (Post 650417)
boyfriend claimed that they knew that turned into the date they were getting married. they have been going to do a courthouse wedding ceremony with their families, then wanted to come to our wedding ceremony.”

Your post has absolutely NOTHING to do with fuel saving products. Did you even read the subject?
If I were a gambler, I would bet 2 weeks' pay that you're banned within 24 hours for your COMPLETELY off-topic spam posts. Just sayin'... Have a nice life.

On edit.... Thank you, moderators for keeping these forums clean of spam.


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