Software Defined Power
 

In times past I've provide links on 'software defined power'. Theoretical stuff.

Comes now Now You Know:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snqBKk4Rpjw

VPP is exactly that. The implications go pretty deep.

What do all y'all think about this? I need to have a PowerWall in my trailer.

Except for the DC to AC portion, you'd be better off rolling your own as that is much cheaper without the rebate.

I'm not sure what you are seeing. This is software running on a distributed hardware platform.

What rebate? Do you have more information on the roll-out.

Oops, I was commenting on the powerwall, I don't do youtube so most of your posts are not read unless there is verbage.

I now understand.

Here's some background. The concept come out of data centers and their obsession with uptime. Here's a Tesla-free example: spectrum.ieee.org/energy/the-smarter-grid/the-softwaredefined-power-grid-is-here

Those specific points on the grid can now be Tesla-branded Powerwalls. I wonder how open the Tesla patents will be. Can Jehu Garcia's powerwalls work with it?

As I understand the article, the sources can be anything that the distribution company computer controls directly, generic or branded. So maybe no tesla patents, and Jehu is safe.

The distribution company computer is Tesla's Virtual Power Plant.

Their software would run over the Internet Of Things. It comes down to how open the protocols employed are. Elon Musk has a pretty grasp of the big picture, but it remains to be seen.

According to this, VPP participants won't be compensated during this roll-out in California.

Dr. Know-it-all Knows it all: Tesla Virtual Power Plant to help California--this is huge!!

Sounds like Beta testing. The 0.xx release.

I checked with the local electric coop. They said there are no Powerwalls in use at this time in this location.

edit:
Lots of interesting comments.

Central control won't work, has to be done at the power source by the power source. I can't see tesla putting software control hardware somewhere else not under their control, but I'm often wrong.

Did you note the name Steinmetz? If you don't watch Youtube [watching you], then you may not have seen the History and Theory of Electricity, here are five copies on B*tch*te. He was an important figure. He took the calculus out of engineering equations.

The problem with anarchism is in interfacing with authority. Big AC won't negotiate with the selfish solar people. The VPP allows Tesla to negotiate with the utilities as a provider. I guess your not watching the videos, but at t=3:51 it shows the user interface. Peaker power is expensive and VPP has high temporal resolution.

Another thing for the Russians to hack!

Wouldn't VPP also include any demand reduction programs by the utility? I.E.: water heater/dryer/a-c interrupts, smart thermostat with remote adjustment, etc.

I think we ran through this scenario in another thread a couple years ago, the cost of those programs were significantly cheaper than building new capacity.

Other than running your email on the same network computers, should be difficult to hack. It is kinda standalone, which is the point.

Demand reductions should occur only after the VPP systems run out of charge.

Peakers are pricey because you need to maintain inop equipment and start it, then run it, whether or not you use it.

Powerwall don't make sense if there is already an EV in the garage, because those are basically bigger versions of the power wall. There isn't sufficient battery production to meet transportation demand currently, so powerwall is not an efficient use of those resources.

Those with grid connected batteries are already able to provide electricity during peak demand, there's simply no incentive structure in place for people to participate. There will need to be industry standard protocols so that the utility can communicate and control the V2G operations. I don't see why that would be proprietary to Tesla.

The future of electricity needs to be real-time pricing for the individual customer. When electricity cost is high, it provides incentive to supply excess, and provides a disincentive to use electricity if it can be avoided.

Ideally, there would be an app on my phone that I set my minimum sell price, the lowest price at which I am willing to sell electricity back to the grid. The utility would then only draw my stored electricity when price meets that threshold.

Those guys in the video always dismiss the major impediments to renewables. There's no amount of storage that can get us through winter on solar, for example. Where I live, solar production is 1/5th in the winter as during the late spring. That means we'd need to build 5x springtime demand just to get through winter. There's no getting around the need for baseload production, which probably should be provided by nuclear.

I don't want to watch the video again, but I'm pretty sure it's in there.
Maybe if you live in your car. The solar roof, Powerwall and car form a subsystem.

Didn't watch the video, but your other post indicated there were price points in the software so it could gauge when to recharge.

The battery is the single largest cost and the thing that sucks the most (only thing that sucks) on an EV. Increasing investment into the worst product when it can be avoided isn't wise.

The powerwall is an unnecessary expense for an EV owner because the grid becomes the powerwall, assuming a sufficiently large amount of other households participating.

Dedicated and stationary electricity storage makes as much sense as solar on a vehicle. One could do it, but it's not an efficient use of the resource.

I'm having trouble empathizing with your position. :confused:

A grid of micro-grids increases efficiency by high-resolution phasor control within the local substation so that power doesn't need to be imported from a centralized peaker plant as often. And that's whether your car is homed or not.

If it made financial sense to purchase a bunch of micro storage to reduce the need for peaker plant production, then it would make even more sense to do so on a macro level. There is no price advantage having the storage be distributed. That is to say, there's no point in fixed micro storage for a typical homeowner.

The battery in an EV is a sunk cost, so if it can be utilized more often, for instance any time it's plugged in and there's high grid demand for electricity, it improves the return on that investment.

.....provided it's not out driving itself around. Maybe there will be a way for cars to participate in VPP.

I'm predicting that's the only way widespread adoption of distributed power on demand will occur (DPOD- I'm coining the term because the use of the word "virtual" for something actual is dumb. It's also why I refuse to say "open concept" when it's an open reality once constructed).

The utility (ostensibly) is responsible to deliver electricity as affordably as possible to their customers. If that means using batteries to reduce the number of peaker plants in service, then the utility will just implement that in macro. The cost and complexity go way down by centralizing the installation.

You're viewing a battery that is out and about as a lost opportunity to stabilize the grid and earn a return for the owner, and I'm viewing a battery that spends most of its time connected to the grid as bonus opportunity to stabilize the grid and return value to the owner.

That's pretty much it, plus I'm more likely to become a bicycle only micro-mobility household than you.

The FUV has more capacity than a Powerwall, and is more fun.