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California98Civic 07-22-2011 12:07 AM

Stealthy injector kill switch, 6th Generation Civic
 
1 Attachment(s)
EDIT: the switch build write-up is in post #3

I'm about ready to install my kill switch for my 1998 manual trans Civic DX, but I have a question. In the picture attached, do you think the switch I bought will serve (after I remove the door jamb plate)? I am emulating this design plan: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post157489 ...but with a twist...

What I plan to do is insert the switch into the OEM (auto trans) shifter I bought (also in the picture). The 6th Gen auto had that button on the faux stick-shifter to prevent accidental selecting of reverse or park ... I'm going to slip my switch into the shifter knob. The switch from pepboys and the shifter's button housing are almost perfectly matched... the switch should work, yes? No?

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...8&d=1311307387

brucepick 07-22-2011 09:06 PM

My kill switch is not stealthy. It's a flip switch about an inch long, amber color, that originally ran a set of fog lamps that I removed after buying the car. It's on the left side of the dash. Down for "run", up for "off", in my case.

I can't tell you from the pic whether it will work or not. I'm sure if you run the right wires to it and break the circuit at the right point, it will do the job.

I can tell you this though. You need about 2-3 seconds of time when the injectors are shut off, for the engine to come to a stop. Then I want to restore the injector circuit. If your new switch requires holding it down to disable the circuit, you'll be holding it down for a duration.

My setup gives a yellow check engine light (CEL) as soon as I cut the injector power. So as soon as the red dash lights and the tach indicate the engine is stopped, I flip the switch back on. That way the computer is happy and the CEL goes away. And as soon as I want to bump start it, the injectors are already switched on. They "spit" no fuel while its stalled of course as the rpm's are zero.

Good luck with it!!

California98Civic 08-08-2011 02:12 AM

8 Attachment(s)
For the FI kill-switch build, a friend convinced me of the value of this design for a fifth generation civic, which interrupts the ground to the injector relay. THE ADVANTAGE of this design is that there will not be a large electrical current running through the switch and its leads, which run along the metal shifter rod.

NOTE: For the sixth generation civics (1996-2000) the fuel injector relay was moved to the passenger side dash, behind the glove box, beside the door. In the fifth generation civics (92-95) this relay was beside the fuse box under the dash on the driver's side. It is harder to get at in the sixth gen arrangement. Here's a pic of the FI-relay as installed behind the glovebox:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...3&d=1312889791

Here is what you need for this kill switch:

1 - A non-lighting interrupter switch (push to break the circuit).
2 - 5+ feet of 18 gauge wire (black preferably).
3 - At least four butt-splice fittings.
4 - An OEM Sixth Gen auto trans gear selector.
5 - TOOLS: phillips head screw driver, wire clippers, 10mm socket.

Here is the basics of what you do (see pics):

1 - Remove the glove box
2 - Identify the injector relay
3 - Remove side panel to get at 10mm bolt securing relay
4 - Cut back conduit and clip black ground wire one inch from plug
5 - Strip ground wires both ends and attach butt-splices
6 - Attach your wire to the splices to make a long ground wire extension.
7 - Attach wires to switch (we had to solder, but you may find easier switches) and insert wires and switch into shifter knob.
8 - Securely mount the shifter knob to the shifter, wires running on the inside, down the shifter and under the pleather decorative thing.
9 - Attach switch wires to extended ground wires using a second pair of butt-splicers.

PS: in the final install, I went with a black button. Stealthier. That's why the color changes in the pics.

PPS: Special thanks to my friend BG.


http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...3&d=1312783800

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...4&d=1312783800

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...5&d=1312783800

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...6&d=1312783800

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...7&d=1312783800

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...8&d=1312783800

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...0&d=1312823249

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...3&d=1312889791

brucepick 08-08-2011 09:05 PM

Nicely done.
I'm curious whether your setup works the way mine does - do you get a yellow check engine light that goes out a few seconds after you let go of the cutoff button?

I broke the continuity of a wire under the hood, near the driver's side hood hinge. I was never able to trace it completely to the injector area, thus I'm interested to know if yours behaves the same. Tomorrow I'll check the color of my wire and edit this post with the info.

California98Civic 08-09-2011 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brucepick (Post 255072)
Nicely done.
I'm curious whether your setup works the way mine does - do you get a yellow check engine light that goes out a few seconds after you let go of the cutoff button?

The check engine light goes on immediately, I wait a beat, and the second the battery and oil lights go on (sometimes battery first) I re-engage the FI ground. It is very tiddy. Generally the ECU does not cut-off and the UG stays functional, though the stock speedometer cuts off temporarily [EDIT: the speedo stays on]. The check engine light turns off when I re-engage the ground, but the oil and battery lights stay on, of course, until I bump start the engine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brucepick (Post 255072)
I broke the continuity of a wire under the hood, near the driver's side hood hinge. I was never able to trace it completely to the injector area, thus I'm interested to know if yours behaves the same. Tomorrow I'll check the color of my wire and edit this post with the info.

I see I forgot to add the actual shot of the FI-relay as installed behind the glove box. I'll figure out a way to edit post and add it now. Sounds to me like your and mine behave the same way.

Arragonis 08-09-2011 11:05 AM

Thanks - good write up, have you thought about adding it to the Wiki or how to section ?

California98Civic 08-10-2011 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arragonis (Post 255170)
Thanks - good write up, have you thought about adding it to the Wiki or how to section ?

Good suggestion. Just did it now. Thanks. I love the switch. Life is easier, and it aids the safety of the technique because I have fewer motions to make, and need never change my line of sight. I can see the indicator lights change while watching the road. Also, when I was keying it, I would lose blinker function. Not anymore.

PaleMelanesian 10-05-2011 01:55 PM

I'm not quite following the actual wiring details here. Are you breaking the black (ground?) wire or are you grounding out something?

brucepick 10-06-2011 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaleMelanesian (Post 264215)
I'm not quite following the actual wiring details here. Are you breaking the black (ground?) wire or are you grounding out something?

I just did a careful read of the link given in this thread's first post.
Both methods use the new switch to temporarily sever the black (ground) wire that goes to the injector relay.

You sever the black wire and insert the switch into the cut location. California98Civic specifies an interrupter switch, also called "NC" type. Normally Closed. Which means that it is normally "on" when not pressing the button.

Here's a bit more electrical detail, if you would like to understand what's happening.

The relay has a "switched" side (or power side) and a "control" side. Two wires for each side, total of four wires. The switched side has a powered lead going in, a small internal switch, and the lead going out to the injectors. The internal switch controls whether that power is sent out to the injectors.

The relay's control side has its own powered lead going in, which powers a small coil that activates the switch. And there's a ground going out from the coil that completes the coil circuit. As long as there is power to the coil and a ground path out of the coil, the internal switch is closed ("on"), and the relay's switched side sends the switched power out to the injectors.

By temporarily severing the ground wire you disable the relay's internal switch, and it sends out no current from the switched side.

Normally the car's computer controls the relay to enable or disable the injectors. This modification just adds one more place from where the relay's status can be controlled. I can't tell from here whether the computer switches the power to the relay's control side on and off, or whether it severs the control side's ground, basically like this mod does. Either way would disable the small coil, which ultimately means no power going out to the injectors.

The injectors themselves receive constant power as supplied via this relay. They are controlled on their ground side. Each injector has its own ground wire going to the computer. The individual grounds are completed by the computer for small fractions of a second at a time. Each injector will squirt fuel only when its individual ground path is completed by the computer.

Sorry for all the wordage. I'm the only one awake in the house and it's too early to do other things.

PaleMelanesian 10-06-2011 09:39 AM

That tells me what I need to know. Thanks. It's a simple-ish mod, I may have to try it in the near future.

Oooh... Does it leave the fuel system pressured up? That's a problem on my car when it gets low - I have to cycle the ignition several times, to run the fuel pump, to get the pressure high enough to actually start the engine. I'd guess this would help with that issue by not running down the pressure.

California98Civic 10-06-2011 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaleMelanesian (Post 264361)
That tells me what I need to know. Thanks. It's a simple-ish mod, I may have to try it in the near future.

Oooh... Does it leave the fuel system pressured up? That's a problem on my car when it gets low - I have to cycle the ignition several times, to run the fuel pump, to get the pressure high enough to actually start the engine. I'd guess this would help with that issue by not running down the pressure.

I don't KNOW the answer, but I have run the tank down to its last two gallons probably four times since the mod, maybe more, since this mod. I have never had to do what you describe, suggesting I may have better pressure in the fuel system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Tele man (Post 264364)
...I don't know how "physically" compatible they are with the HONDA, but the shift-quadrant selector handle on 2003-2008 Pontiac/Toyota Vibe/Matrix with automatic transmissions has a button on the side--just like you're re-inventing--that's used to "lock-out" (disconnect) the Over-Drive (OD) 4th-gear.

This is exactly the sort of idea I had. My goal was a shifter that was stock in appearance, so I got a stock 1998 Civic auto shifter knob! Fits the interior styling perfectly.

brucepick 10-06-2011 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaleMelanesian (Post 264361)
...
Oooh... Does it leave the fuel system pressured up? That's a problem on my car when it gets low - I have to cycle the ignition several times, to run the fuel pump, to get the pressure high enough to actually start the engine. I'd guess this would help with that issue by not running down the pressure.

I'm pretty sure there's an anti-backflow valve in the fuel line, intended to maintain fuel line pressure when the pump is off. I'd suggest web searching to learn how the fuel line and pump system are configured and where is that valve etc. Likely a mechanic who works on lots of Hondas will know exactly where it is and related tips. I haven't yet had the pleasure(?) of learning about the Civic's fuel pump details; I had to learn re. our old rear drive Volvos which had electronic fuel injection and pumps all by Bosch.

bestclimb 10-06-2011 01:08 PM

on my 5th gen when I am down really low I bump start it and if I try to add power immediately I get a momentary hesitation. If I wait for about 1-2 seconds after bumpstarting then releasing the clutch and adding power I get no hesitation. If I have more than 2 gallons in the tank I get no hesitation. That may not be useful information as your 6th gen may not be wired and plumbed the same.

PaleMelanesian 10-06-2011 01:47 PM

That's exactly the behavior I'm talking about. If this mod keeps the fuel system pressurized, it could eliminate that.

When you key off with the ignition, it's the spark you're removing. The fuel continues to flow until it's used up, or at least until the pressure is fairly low so not much is injected. If you interrupt the injector signal instead, you immediately stop the injectors and keep the system pressurized.

I'm going to have to try this and report back.

some_other_dave 10-06-2011 02:52 PM

When you turn the key to "off", the spark is cut and the signal to the injectors is cut. The same ECU controls both, and if only the spark were cut the engine would be able to diesel on for a while.

On older Hondas, I believe that the fuel pressure regulator is on the driver's end of the fuel rail, where the fuel return line comes off of the rail. That should hold pressure when the pump is off. I do not know if there is a separate check-valve elsewhere that holds pressure in the other end of the system, or if the pump itself serves as the check-valve. (I know that some older systems which have pumps mounted outside of the tank do that.)

-soD

brucepick 10-06-2011 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bestclimb (Post 264384)
on my 5th gen when I am down really low I bump start it and if I try to add power immediately I get a momentary hesitation. If I wait for about 1-2 seconds after bumpstarting then releasing the clutch and adding power I get no hesitation. If I have more than 2 gallons in the tank I get no hesitation. That may not be useful information as your 6th gen may not be wired and plumbed the same.

Thanks, bestclimb.

I also get a hesitation occasionally after bump starting. I hadn't connected it to a low tank but I will watch for that. Or possibly the fuel system pressure drops for another (occasional) reason that we haven't yet identified.

California98Civic 11-12-2011 09:24 PM

An update on the use of this injector kill switch. I find it is important to wait until the rpms hit about 1000 or lower to cut the injectors. Doing that ensures that a short cut of the injectors, which will not shut off my Ultra Gauge, is possible without unwanted engine restart when the power to the injectors is re-engaged due to relatively higher rpms. Also, there is a significant difference between alt-on and alt-off in terms of the time it takes to reach this rpm reduction. With the alt engaged, the engine slows more quickly (predictably).

SentraSE-R 11-13-2011 12:15 PM

FWIW, I believe Brucepick's explanation of the fuel injector relay in message 9 of this thread is incorrect. Most automotive relays are either four terminal (as he described) or five terminal. Both four terminal and five terminal relays connect the two "switched" or "power" side wires in Normally Closed (NC) position by default. This is a fail-safe mode, so if the relay fails (its triggered electromagnetic contacts don't move), your fuel injectors will still work when untriggered. When you power the "control" or trigger side terminals, you open the "switched" or "power" side circuit. In a four terminal relay, the switched/power side circuit opens, and there is no continuity - the opposite situation to what Brucepick said. In a five terminal relay, the same thing happens to the switched/power side NC terminals, but the fifth NO terminal connects to one of the NC terminals, so you make a connection between those terminals in the switched/triggered Normally Open (NO) position.

California98Civic 11-13-2011 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SentraSE-R (Post 270189)
FWIW, I believe Brucepick's explanation of the fuel injector relay in message 9 of this thread is incorrect.

So you are saying that his description of how the switched and powered side of the relay works is incorrect. But I don't think it changes the general import of the message, does it? He wrote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by brucepick (Post 264333)
By temporarily severing the ground wire you disable the relay's internal switch, and it sends out no current from the switched side....

This modification just adds one more place from where the relay's status can be controlled. I can't tell from here whether the computer switches the power to the relay's control side on and off, or whether it severs the control side's ground, basically like this mod does. Either way would disable the small coil, which ultimately means no power going out to the injectors.

The injectors themselves receive constant power as supplied via this relay. They are controlled on their ground side. Each injector has its own ground wire going to the computer. The individual grounds are completed by the computer for small fractions of a second at a time. Each injector will squirt fuel only when its individual ground path is completed by the computer.

I have been wondering if there is any possibility of squirted and unburnt or partially burnt fuel in this scenario. Would show-up as fouled plugs, but would also mean piston damage over time. That's why this update. I want the injectors shutting off more cleanly, and that seems to work best when the revs are dropping, not arcing-up from a 75% load pulse at the moment of cut-off.

SentraSE-R 11-13-2011 06:33 PM

I was wrong. Most of the Bosch four terminal automotive relays I'm seeing are NO. You can find almost any configuration of relay to suit any application, but I'll go with what's standard in the industry.

I don't know Hondas, but Brucepick's explanation sounds reasonable.

baldlobo 11-14-2011 03:07 AM

if you have a factory anti-theft device(required by 2000 in canada), there is at least one fuse in use by that system, rather than cutting wires and getting check engine lights; my 1999 jeep tj has a fuse that can be used to cut both ignition and injectors.

benphyr 03-09-2012 09:41 PM

cutting both ignition and injection
 
Baldlobo,

Do you mean that you can pull the fuse for the anti-theft, route that circuit directly from the fuse (fused elsewhere in the same loop of course), and run your wires to your kill-switch from there? That is, replacing the anti-theft fuse with a a circuit that progresses from beginning fuse terminal, to fuse, to kill-switch, back to other fuse terminal?

Sounds awfully simple, and is killing spark and fuel at the same time just like keying off.

How would I go about finding which fuse? Any suggestions on what they would call it on a 2005 Civic?

Cheers,
Benphyr.

baldlobo 03-17-2012 11:20 PM

ok second time around typing this; first get yourself a civic service manual(it can be googled) trace the wiring diagrams. bad news is your civic's immobilizer only shuts off the fuel pump from what i read; that and honda grouped the wiring so it is hard to just pull one fuse. i can give you hints, i'd look at fuses for the ignition coils and fuel pump under the dash.

steffen707 04-03-2012 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by California98Civic (Post 264372)
I don't KNOW the answer, but I have run the tank down to its last two gallons probably four times since the mod, maybe more, since this mod. I have never had to do what you describe, suggesting I may have better pressure in the fuel system.



This is exactly the sort of idea I had. My goal was a shifter that was stock in appearance, so I got a stock 1998 Civic auto shifter knob! Fits the interior styling perfectly.

Does the auto shifter knob screw onto the manual shifter like the manual knob does? That would be awesome. There's a few junk yards near my house, I know i can find an auto shifter there.

steffen707 04-03-2012 06:53 PM

There may be a problem with this method. I know with older EF civic/crx 88-91 the relays also control the fuel pump. This might account for the hesitations that people have been experiencing. Read this webpage for a great detailed explanation.
How the Main Relay works

Not positive it is the same for 96-00 civic EK body styles, but could be.

steffen707 04-03-2012 06:55 PM

From the link I provided above, I think if we just inturrupt the 3rd wire that goes to the ecu and injectors the fuel pump may stay on, but this probably will cause check engine lights.

I'm not positive that the ground operates both of the relays in the main relay, the engine schematics are a bit confusing at times.

I suppose it would be easy to test, just check and see if the fuel pump still has power when you disable this switch. Or hold the switch down when you turn the ignition key on, do you hear the pump turn on? Then you would know.

Can you test this? Maybe i'm jumping to conclusions where its not needed.

steffen707 04-03-2012 07:40 PM

Upon further investigating it appears that the main relay also provides power to the EACV, which aids in controlling the idle of the car. Disabling wire 3 of the link above would cut power to the injector as well as power to the eacv, but may let the pump still have power.

steffen707 04-03-2012 11:07 PM

FYI, i tried turning the car to ig1 7 times, each time disconnecting one of the 7 pgmfi main relay wires before turning the key. On all but 1 the fuel pump never turned on. The one wire that could be disconnected and the fuel pump still turned on was the blue wire, #6 on the honda shop manual that goes to the ST switch.

If you disconnected any one of the other 6 wires, the fuel pump wouldn't turn on.

You may be thinking well what about if the car is already started and running and you disconnect one of those wires (via a switch), well I plan to test that on Thursday, while having my multimeter connected to the fuel pump and will report back the results.

WD40 04-04-2012 03:28 PM

It definitely kills the pump in my VX.
I tried key on to hear the fuel pump with and without the kill switch.

steffen707 04-04-2012 03:37 PM

I stopped by the store to get a couple connectors to be able to make jumper wires from the relay to the relay harness so I can test disconnecting each of these wires, one at a time while the engine is running, and with my multimeter hooked up to the fuel pump. I might have results tonight because i get off work around 5pm.

I did read there is a check valve inside the fuel pump. Honda manual for obd1 cars 11-114 says, "When the engine stops, the pump stops automatically. However, a check valve closes by spring action to retain the residual pressure in the line, helping the engine to restart more easily.

So even if you use the "ground switch method described on page 1" and the pump gets shut off, the check valve should retain the pressure for the seconds that you have it off on gliding. If you are having stumbling or hesitation issues when you bump start the car from an EOC I think you might have a weak check valve (just a guess). Hopefully I can find one of these wires to disconnect to shut off the injectors and not the pump.

steffen707 04-05-2012 01:49 PM

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/4324/20120404173122.jpg

Okay here was my test rig, i went to the junkyard and got a main relay connector, plugged that into the main relay, on the other end I crimped spade connectors and inserted those into the cars main relay plug.

I started the car and reved the engine up to about 4,000rpm and then disconnected one wire at a time. Every wire except the blue will shut the car off. Some of them will just shut the fuel pump off and the engine will continue to run and slowly sputter to a stop.

Any wire that instantly shut the car off also shuts off the fuel pump. I checked by having my digital multi meter connected to the fuel pump, and when you would disconnect a wire like the black ground wire, the engine shut off and there was no voltage to the fuel pump.

I wanted to disconnect the power wire that feeds each injector, except I did not feel like hacking into my engine wire harness. Someday maybe i'll do that, but for now i'm going to do the relay switch.

SO, I totally agree that putting the switch on the ground wire is the best idea. Hopefully somebody that is curious if the fuel pump gets shut off will benefit from my testing.

steffen707 04-06-2012 03:12 PM

Hey California, did you get that push button switch at a store or online? My local auto parts places and hardware stores don't have any switches like that. I went to the junkyard and found an auto gear shifter just like yours from a 98 Civic EX. Copying is the highest form of flattery right?

hawk2100n 04-06-2012 07:00 PM

I have been thinking about a normally-closed push-button mounted in one of the blanks where the power mirror adjustment switch usually lives in fancier civics. Push to coast. I wanted to snag a big red or black one like you see in an old arcade machine for a clean install. There are two small blanks and a larger one. I would like for that to become my Eco control panel. Have the fuel cutoff and adjacent an alternator disconnect toggle.

California98Civic 04-08-2012 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steffen707 (Post 298650)
Hey California, did you get that push button switch at a store or online? My local auto parts places and hardware stores don't have any switches like that.

I bought it in a brick-n-mortar store, not online. But I was out of town and don't remember the store name, sorry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by steffen707 (Post 298650)
I went to the junkyard and found an auto gear shifter just like yours from a 98 Civic EX.

That's cool. You saved mucho cash then, probably. I was impatiently unwilling to search the yards. Impatience, like inexperience, always leads to lost cash in these projects, I have found.

Quote:

Originally Posted by steffen707 (Post 298650)
Copying is the highest form of flattery right?

Yes indeedy, but be careful what you copy, 'cause sometimes I have little idea what I'm doing!! hahaha!

steffen707 04-26-2012 07:37 PM

I DID IT! I copied your push button setup, but I had to buy a smaller normally closed push button switch off ebay. I was worried about its amperage capacity but it hasn't been a problem yet.

I'll post some pictures tonight if you don't mind. I'm not thread jacking, just adding another option to the readers.

I'm guessing bump starting the car uses less gas than with the starter, but have you read/noticed/found any info about how much more fuel is used with the starter?

I've just started my P&G efforts, and so far its amazing how well it can work.

I can get 70+mpg in certain warm engine city only trips where I could only get 50-60mpg previously.

The example i've read a lot is if you can pulse at more than half your cruise mpg, and pulse for the same time as your coast, you will be better off.

What i'm finding on the limited testing i've done, is that I can pulse for 5 seconds (from 25mph to 35mph) and glide for 20-25 seconds back down to 25mph.

So even though i'm only getting 17-22 mpg pulsing in 3rd or 4th at relatively high throttle, I'm gliding for 4-5 times my pulse, giving me like 85-137.5mpg spread depending if its 17mpg for 4 times length, or 22mpg for 5 times length.

PRETTY AMAZING STUFF. Of course I need to hone my skills a bit, but i'm glad I did the mod.

Now my only concern is all this engine off electrical use. I think its draining my battery.....probably causing long term harm to it.

California98Civic 04-27-2012 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steffen707 (Post 303332)
I'll post some pictures tonight if you don't mind. I'm not thread jacking, just adding another option to the readers.

You're on your way into the wonderful world of pulse and glide. I don't think the bump start uses really any significant extra power, other than the slight rev up you get when you get a good "spin" on the bump sometimes. The starter definitely draws some juice, which will ultimately have to be restored to the battery by the alternator.

Post pics! Would love to see them.

james

PaleMelanesian 04-27-2012 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steffen707 (Post 303332)
What i'm finding on the limited testing i've done, is that I can pulse for 5 seconds (from 25mph to 35mph) and glide for 20-25 seconds back down to 25mph.

So even though i'm only getting 17-22 mpg pulsing in 3rd or 4th at relatively high throttle, I'm gliding for 4-5 times my pulse, giving me like 85-137.5mpg spread depending if its 17mpg for 4 times length, or 22mpg for 5 times length.

PRETTY AMAZING STUFF. Of course I need to hone my skills a bit, but i'm glad I did the mod.

Now my only concern is all this engine off electrical use. I think its draining my battery.....probably causing long term harm to it.

That's the ticket! The magic is in the glide.

I have a trickle charger that I plug in every night to maintain the battery. I ate up 2 batteries in 2 years before it. With the charger the next battery lasted 3 years. I'm in Texas so the heat is hard on them as well.

steffen707 04-27-2012 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steffen707 (Post 303332)
I'm guessing bump starting the car uses less gas than with the starter, but have you read/noticed/found any info about how much more fuel is used with the starter?

Quote:

Originally Posted by California98Civic (Post 303381)
I don't think the bump start uses really any significant extra power, other than the slight rev up you get when you get a good "spin" on the bump sometimes. The starter definitely draws some juice, which will ultimately have to be restored to the battery by the alternator.

I wasn't as concerned about the electricity that the starter uses, but more about the gasoline spent to fire the engine back up. I figure that bump starting uses less fuel than using the starter. But has any info been gathered about how much fuel is used to start an engine?

Or like how many seconds at idle is equal to starting an engine? Kinda like, if you idle for more than 5 seconds its always better to shut the engine off and restart it to use less fuel?

PaleMelanesian 04-27-2012 11:40 AM

We've found a couple external studies that range from 7 to 15 seconds of idle fuel for a key start.

steffen707 04-27-2012 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaleMelanesian (Post 303437)
That's the ticket! The magic is in the glide.

I have a trickle charger that I plug in every night to maintain the battery. I ate up 2 batteries in 2 years before it. With the charger the next battery lasted 3 years. I'm in Texas so the heat is hard on them as well.

That's what I was going to do. I bought a harbor freight on board 1.5amp maintainer for $15 last year. Hooked it up to my crv for the winter, as I only drive that once a few weeks. WORKED FLAWLESSLY. Middle of winter after not driving it for a month, freezing cold, the car fired right up.

Anyways, i bought another one and am going to hook it up to my econobox as well.

I'll post pics shortly.


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