Stripped oil pan threads
 

Yesterday my girlfriend wanted to visit her grandparents nineteen miles away and I mentioned that I needed to change my oil, which we did for Bacon over there a few months ago. When I had the car inspected before purchasing, they told me that I had a few slow oil leaks, but as long as I checked the oil regularly, I should be fine, and I could repair the leaks myself when I had the time. Everything went fine when we changed the oil in Chorizo until my girlfriend noticed that I was already leaking oil. I guess that I should use my torque wrench, I do not know how accurate my idea of proper tightness is, but apparently I use The Force to know when to stop tightening, instead of using The Force to tighten.

Or a sonic screwdriver.

Apparently, an impact wrench is as appropriate as my sledgehammer.

A friend said that it is cheaper to have a shop change your oil, then they are liable for stripping the bolt, but what are the chances that a shop did this and did not tell the previous owner? It turns out that the pan is aluminum and the bolt is steel. Aren't dissimilar metals supposed to be avoided? Since the bolt is stronger than the pan, it easily strips the thread, although I showed my girlfriend the bolt for some reason. I did not see the aluminum threads on it, like the picture at: http://www.mtsac.edu/~cliff/storage/...lug-Repair.pdf

That page mentions Fix-a-Thread Plug Saver kit, but does not say much about it, instead explaining that you can use a Heli-Coil, although it may wear out, so a TIME-SERT would be much better, but he went and used an over-sized drain plug, which is what the guy at Autozone convinced me to do. I bought a "cookie tray" oil pan and put it under my car when I parked last night. This morning it had a six-inch puddle, but the dipstick still read full. I needed to run errands because my parents were coming down for Xistday tomorrow. I planned on riding my bike until my mother gave me a grocery list that just seemed too long. The leak seemed slow enough that I felt that I would be fine as long as I made sure that I was at "full" before going anywhere, but when I had a friend ask if I wanted to hang out, I asked if I could get a ride to the store.

Eric the Car Guy (on YouTube) said that over-sized drain plugs only make the problem worse and explained that there were still good threads behind the stripped ones, so if you got a bolt with the proper thread and cut it to be half an inch longer than the old plug, you do not need to do anything else.

Ace did not have the bolt, I could not find it at HomeDepot.com, and according to this picture:

http://classic.artsautomotive.com/OilPan-012.jpg

The walls of the pan are thin and there are hardly any threads in the first place. They say that Honda has had poorly-designed oil pans for decades and instead of putting in another pan that will fail, they weld a nut behind the hole, as shown on the left.

So, once again, I am doomed?

I keep telling my girlfriend that it is okay, I have two cars.

She really likes using Bacon...

I have not really done anything yet, I have the over-sized bolt, but when I go to my sister's house tomorrow for Xistday I will see if I still have my jack stands there. When I came back from Germany I could not find several things and easily could have forgotten about much more. However, I did find a note taped to car speakers that I bought, but never installed, with a price on it, so my sister may have sold as many of my belongings as she could have.

If I do not have a better option, I will not drive, and on Monday I will replace my bolt with the over-sized one. Is it even feasible to remove my oil pan, grind down the back of the drain hole, and have a shop weld a nut onto it?

For the record, qwikvalve.com recommends re-tapping the threads to the next-larger size.

My girlfriend's car had a nasty dent in the bottom of her oil pan, and everything was so dirty, I wasn't sure there wasn't even a leak there. Her transmission went bad & we found a used one on-line. During the job, I had the mechanic who was doing it "fix" the oil pan while he had the engine out. He did a really nice job of banging it out & re-welding the part along the crease he thought might be leaking. Then he said he re-positioned the drain plug a little lower, so more will drain out when changing oil. It turned out really nice.

So, yes, if you're willing to go to the time & expense, the pan can be taken off and either a "backing nut" welded on behind it or other repair. You probably could tap it out to a bigger size too, but you better be careful the new threads are nice & straight. And also be sure to clean any metal filings out if you do that!

Fumoto Valve | Qwik Valve™

look into into a fumoto drain valve.

It is entirely understandable if you opened my post, saw how long it was, and tried to escape before wasting too much of your life! :D

It is Xistday! :D

Had the same issue with Helga; discovered that the drain plug threads where stripped when I did the first oil change. Bit the bullet & purchased a new pan and then installed the Fumoto valve so I don't run into the problem again. Needless to say, I do not have anyone else change the oil on my car.

Happy Xistday!

What in the world is Xistday?

Maybe his birthday?

If you are going to remove the oil pan for a repair. I would consider a pick and pull replacement.
They also make threaded inserts that should do the job if there is enough material for one.
I would never helicoil a drain plug. The threaded inserts are not like helicoils, just use some powerful threadlock on the insert (NOT ON THE DRAIN PLUG!). I usually tighten up the drain plug with a box end wrench until it gets just snug with little force. The I use a wooden handled hammer and tap the wrench with the wooden handle until it stops moving easily (maybe another 20 degrees rotation). This method allows me to reuse the aluminum sealing washer (or copper if it calls for that) probably at least 10 times before it needs replacing. If that soft washer is crushed badly enough to expand more than 10% of its original width then you are overtorquing the drainplug.

Be very careful with the oil pan bolts, probably 6X1.0 and they only need about 4-6 foot pounds of force or you will strip them. I use a1/4 inch ratchet and my middle finger to tighten them. 6 foot pounds ain't much and you should use a little silicone sealant if there is a gasket I put it on my finger andput just enough on to make thesurface of the gasket wet. If there isno pan gasketthe nbe very careful tightening it up. It takes even less force without a gasket, just enough to keep it tight.

regards
Mech

Yes, Xistday is Xist's birthday. I always find it strange how much attention-seeking behavior I have. You would think that I would have cut back before turning thirty-five!

I realized that if I used an over-sized plug or re-tapped a larger one, if my pan is as depicted in the first post here, there might not be any bung left, just half a thread in the sidewall.

Is the EX pan the same as the HX? I wasted too much time trying to figure out that one, but when I finally pulled up estore.honda.com and realized that I needed to search for "pan, oil" and not "oil pan," it showed 11200-P2J for the EX and HX, but 11200-P2E for the DX. A new steel pan is $114.32, but aluminum costs $254.37. Of course, nobody is telling me to purchase a new one.

There is an HX pan in Tucson (116 miles) for $75 and two EX pans in Mesa (6.1 miles) for $85. I would need to get 63.7 MPG and not value my time to break even driving to Tucson. So, I can purchase one for approximately $80 and drive approximately 61 miles each way for what should be a good pan, and then install a Fumoto Valve.

Or I could not plan on driving Chorizo, remove the pan, have someone weld on a nut, and then install the valve, which I would not necessarily need at that point.

What would I do with my old pan? If I can just weld a nut, it should be fine afterward.

When I bought the car, I was told that I had a leak in the rear-main seal. Would there be any point in fixing that at the same time?

Merry Christmas.

Or, if you prefer the politically correct version: Merry Xmas.

Either way "X" is here to stay.

Rear seal requires a tranny removal.

regards
Mech

Nah, just let it keep leaking oil. It won't harm the engine as long as it's still got oil in it. What's the loss of a couple of quarts of oil per week? The oil leak helps lube the roadway, which reduces friction and increases MPG. :rolleyes: If the oil seal eventually ruptures, that will really get your attention.

Hmmm. What's the cost of a rear seal repair vs. replacing a quart or more of lost oil per week?

Loaded question?

regards
Mech

I should have changed the oil when I purchased the car, but I drove it little, and the dipstick always showed "full." It definitely dripped in the driveway, more than I would have liked, but not enough to concern me. Yesterday morning it showed "full" and the puddle in the pan this morning was not overly-worrysome, I really doubt that it would need a quart per week.

So, purchase the pan in Mesa, install the valve, and forget about the rear main?

I finally picked up the oil pan and bought a gasket, oil, PB Blaster, a drain pan, and jack stands. I keep reading about how to do the replacement and people linked diagrams, although many of the images did not show up for me. Someone finally linked a .PDF of the Honda repair manual, so I have a few pages that I will print off, I can probably interrupt my roommate's Rock Band in order to use his printer, but he was gone before I went to O'Reilly.

None of this sounds fun, just doable, and I would rather do it myself. I wish that people stopped trying to tell me that if I had just paid Quick Lube to do this for me, I never would have had this problem. That is exactly why I have this problem!

Even if a shop discovered the stripped threads, they probably would have done their best to hide it. Shops are the main reason for stripped oil pan threads, but I've heard of many more stripped threads than replaced oil pans. At least now you know and can fix it. Are you adding a Fumoto valve?

It's not rocket science. The hardest part is being underneath the car to drop the pan and reinstall it with all the bolts. However, after you change the pan, the gasket and the oil, it might still continue to leak. If it does, then you will realize that you were barking up the wrong tree. Been there, done that.

Let's hope it's just that, and not the engine seal. :o

I would put some silicone on the gasket, assuming it has one. Also make sure you don't overtorque the bolts holding the pan. It doesn't take much to get them tight. We used to carefully check the threads on the drain plugs. You can tell when they have been overtorqued. The threads will show the damage before it gets critical. We stocked the drain plugs and copper washers and replaced them regularly, but I can't remember ever stripping one. Always threaded them in by hand until the washer contacted the pan. If they wouldn't thread in by hand they were on their way to being stripped. I used a box end wrench and my open hand to get them tight. Never had a problem.

regards
Mech

Right. I forgot to get a smaller torque wrench. Also, I keep reading about scraping off the old seal and putting Honda Bonda on the new one, but the guy did not know anything about that.

My ex\girl\friend (sorry for bringing up my soap opera!) is trying to make arrangements for one of her coworkers to fix it for me, since I need to be doing my schoolwork.

I should be able to make the repair in two hours or less, right? Gah. Let's set up a pool on how long that actually takes, I just do not have any idea what the prize would be. I went to put Chorizo on jacks yesterday, but that did not quite work out. I just wanted to spray PB Blaster on the bolts, but I might as well drain the oil, and then I would not be driving it anywhere.

If I were to have the guy change my oil pan for me, I would need to drive half an hour each way in Bacon, pick up the girl, and then drive Chorizo twelve minutes to the local vocational school. In theory, as long as I top off first, I should be fine driving five miles, and if I do lose oil, her only job is to honk, but that is over an hour that I could have had to work on it myself.

This video seems to describe it pretty well: [video has been deleted]

This is all that the repair manual shows:http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1397458372

Well, you cannot believe everything that you read on-line. I do not have any idea what this is supposed to be, but I really do not think that it would ever function as an oil pan!

https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/...99106691_n.jpg

So, this is my new one:

https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/...90564865_n.jpg

It is a little weird, it looks like they ground down the metal on the outside, but not the inside:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n...03296531f7af79

I ended up pulling up the YouTube video that I linked while laying under my car trying to figure out where a bracket was so that I could spray the bolts. I guess that it is above the header (?), which I still have not removed, and while I marveled at PB Blaster, those fasteners are on tight! I sprayed them again.

There was some plate inside of my oil pan, I sprayed those bolts, which also looked rusted, and they came off easily. They required one firm twist with my wrench, and then I used my fingers. I wanted to clean out the PB Blaster, but I just want to clean the entire part now, there is burned oil and metal shavings. Magnets wouldn't do any good!

I drained my twenty-mile oil, installed the bolt from Ace, and put in new oil, but I figured that I only have three good threads. I used a torque wrench.

The Quick Valve is in the mail, but I cannot use it without replacing the pan, although I could tap out to a larger hole. That should arrive before my friend's coworker would be able to replace the pan.

Why am I not finished yet?!

I asked my friend to ask her friend if I needed Honda Bonda or RTV, but did not hear back. She made a first payment for Bacon, so I need to work out a contract. She really wanted me to have her friend fix my car and I kept asking her how that saved me either time or frustration, but she insisted that it would, then she was not clear on where to meet up with them, so that was a bad start. I stopped for RTV and then she was upset that I was late. I drove to the kid's house, he lifted my car, swore about tiny cars, and then said that he could not work on it.

I went to Honda, picked up the right gasket, returned the Fel-Pro one, and bought a breaker bar before driving home.

I still cannot remove those nuts! I removed the heat shielding on the exhaust pipe in order to access the one nut that seemed impossible. I sprayed it with PB Blaster several times, took my heat gun to it, and periodically hit the bolt dead center with my tap. Whenever I tried to loosen the nut, it just rounded the corners. I would hammer the socket to re-shape the nut, over and over, so I went back to Ace, found a replacement nut, but when I asked where to find a chisel, the gentleman told me to purchase a propane torch.

The nut was still rounded, so I rode my bike to purchase one of those, took off the dust shielding just to be able to use the chisel, and gave up when I realized that it would take hours and I would probably break the stud in the process.

I started taking apart the exhaust manifold heat shielding when I cut myself and decided that I needed to go inside and clean up.

I am not sure whether my sister would be more upset if I rented a car to make it to the Easter dinner after-party, or just said that I could not make it, but I am not putting my car back together now!

File or grind in a nick or groove on the edge of the nut and use the punch and hammer to spin it.

or

try heating around the threads with a soldering torch then try turning it

I often use a large or heavy hammer to smack the end of the wrench , in preparation file the worn nut or just hammer the next smallest socket on to it, then hit the end of the ratchet / wrench or breaker bar with a heavy hammer to loosing it.
If your still having trouble get a bigger hammer.

Or maybe a nut spliter.

http://www.northerntool.com/images/p...44_114x114.jpg

I usually just split them with a chisel.

I used a propane torch, bought just for the occasion, and using a chisel as an arduously slow process. It was an awkward angle and I could only get in a few hits before the chisel flew at my face. Thanks, though.

You know, I think that I will see if I can fit a nut splitter in there. Thanks!

I ended up removing the intake manifold and hammering a 13mm socket onto the 14mm bolt. I guess that it would have been easier to use the smaller English socket, since it would have been closer in size.

When I decided to break that nut I bought a replacement, but one of the others is somewhat stripped, so I will replace that tomorrow, and I cannot find another, but otherwise, everything is back together.

I will do a write-up later. I did not feel that I could find complete instructions anywhere.

As I mentioned in http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post421474, when I hammered the smaller socket onto the nut, I ended up with a small crack in the manifold, and I put JB Weld on it to see if I still had a problem. [Edit: I swear there was a crack, but after the JB Weld melted off, I took it to a welder, and he could not find a crack.]

I do. I did not drive the car until today, less than a mile each way to Church, there was a burning smell, and when I made a visit just now, my car was hissing when I got back to it. I already pulled the manifold to replace the oil pan, so I can do that easily. The place that sold me the pan also has a manifold, but they want $140 for it. That is cool, I can purchase this for $46.98 http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzAwWDcwMA...TR1xu/$_57.JPG off of eBay with free shipping.

I cannot help but notice that it does not have a catalytic converter... it sure is pretty, though!

I will be looking for a local welder and trying to figure out how to remove JB-Weld. That has to be easy, right?

The guy that made a visit with me told me that I was burning something and that it was electrical because my instrument panel lights pulsed. I had smelled the burning, that was definitely new. Finally, when I went to leave, my car was hissing.

When I was trying to fix the stuck nut I went to remove a bolt to be able to adjust the radiator in order to move the exhaust manifold. I learned that I chose a bolt that was not for mounting, but maintained a seal. I quickly had antifreeze spraying and somehow I have broken the seal, even though I never removed the bolt.

Hopefully a welder can fix the manifold, if I need to remove it I can do that easily, but I do not look forward to troubleshooting the electrical problem. How in the world do I fix the radiator leak?! He was insisting that it was my AC system, but the fluid was definitely green.

Oh boy...

If you've been going to the same shop for a long time and they know they're the only ones who have been touching it, then most likely. If it's a good shop. And if they don't think they can convince you that "It's a common problem with those pans, I'm surprised yours lasted so long."

If the shop knows they've done it over time, they know they're the ones that are going to have to deal with it next time. If the shop discovers it, they'll tell you for sure- it beats those stripped threads being blamed on them a few months from now. If they discover it and don't tell you, then they might own a little bit of it. But they're not the ones who created the problem over time, so they've got no reason to hide it.

The guy at O'Reilly said that he could not give out advice, it would be a liability, so I went to Autozone. I drove my car way more today than yesterday and the AC system did not leak. The guy at Autozone thought that it sealed itself. There was a terrible burning smell yesterday, but I did not notice it today. However, the guy at Autozone said that I had a bad voltage regulator, which they would order for $170.

Discovered a while back through experience that O'Reilly's charge double for simple parts... decided never to go there again.

Warning: leaks don't seal themselves.

like sheep dog said try fumoto if you havent really screwed up or bulged the threads with a bigger bolt. same issue on my 460 and now no leak. use rtv black when you put it in, the brass valve threads are soft so dont over tighten

I have a Quick Valve on the replacement pan and I know better than to expect problems to go away, I just have not seen it again.

Well, I should get to bed. I need to be up in an hour for drill! Who plans drill immediately preceding finals?!

I had a lot of time to think today at work, where I spent hours outside, with my pants tucked into my boots, and then as I finally walked to my car, put my uniform hat and cover in the trunk, removed my sun shade from the door (I am missing the visor and someone's suggestion worked great), and finally relented and turned on my air conditioning.

What if it stopped leaking because it was empty?

Why do I have the same things going wrong with Chorizo that happened with Bacon?!

As I mentioned elsewhere, Windows died the morning of my last two finals. I am still trying to sort out that. I ended up reinstalling Windows and it keeps telling me:

So, I have not used the computer much since Thursday. On Friday, I took off my exhaust manifold to take it to a welding shop and realized that I was missing two nuts! My ex-girlfriend was there when I replaced the oil pan and she insists that I put all of the nuts on it. I could only guess that I did not have them on tight enough. The welder could not see any cracks, but the face of the manifold was black from exhaust, so it must have been coming out of there, instead of from some crack. I put it back and made sure that it was tight. Everything seemed fine until I drove to my parents' house, helped them all day, and then drove to a date.

I can hear the heat shield again.

I am going to see if those nuts came off again or if the part is somehow warped. I really do not know what I could do besides replace it.

After dinner, since this is a small town, and she said there were not any more movie showings, I took her for a drive, and was pulled over in an even smaller town. The Officer said that I was going "slightly" over the speed limit and my tail lights were flickering just barely noticeably. I told my date that I was waiting until after finals to replace the voltage regulator, which is apparently part of the alternator. She said that a new alternator would probably be cheaper.

Autozone and O'Reilly have voltage regulators for $170, but I can get a Honda one from Majestic or elsewhere for less, while they charge $700 for an alternator!

A and O have alternators for $103!

They are remanufactured, while I can purchase used ones back in the valley for $35-50.

I start so many threads! It seemed like I received more responses from a new thread than continuing an old one, so I probably mentioned elsewhere that I bought a new alternator from NAPA for $142 and then needed to saw off a piece to make it fit.

I still have not fixed my laptop. It seems like it is fine unless it moves, which would be anytime that it is in my lap. I am spending the summer at my parents' house, but probably should have taken my computer in, I was home for a few days.

The welder told me that my exhaust manifold was not square, but today a mechanic told me that they never are, but bolting them down fixes that. I had really wondered about the ability of small bolts to bend thick iron. He said that the heat and rapid cooling always warps them, but he always has them ground down when removed, and that I need to replace my gasket, even though it is metal.

I replaced the AC gasket and topped off the coolant, but barely drove my car before parking it for a couple of weeks, driving it briefly, and then parking it for three more weeks. It still blew cold, but I believe the AC system was making noises, I had not heard them before, and I figured that it was moisture in the system. I had a shop pull vacuum and replace it. It was only 110° as I drove home, so my AC easily keeps me cool now.

I only run it when it is over a hundred.

The mechanic told me to remove my "grill block," telling me that I am making the radiator and condenser work too hard.

Is there a special heat transfer rating for metal that you don't want to approach or you'll wear it out? Well, the aluminum in your radiator will only transfer so many BTU/Square Inch over it's lifetine, and you don't want to stress it.

I still have not called Microsoft to tell them that I reinstalled Windows and it tells me to purchase a new license. Friends have told me they happily take care of that, but it is a minor inconvenience.

I had a shop pull vacuum on my AC and recharge it. I still do not know why I hear my heat shield rattle when I accelerate, but looking at a parts diagram for the Accord, it says to replace all of the washers. I never saw that for my Civic. Could that cause a leak that would interfere with my O2 sensor?

The Friday of Labor Day weekend I was driving out of a canyon when my AC blew hot. I looked at the engine temperature and it was high, so I turned off my AC until the engine cooled way down, which only took a few miles.

I was only running my AC because I was driving four hours to meet a young lady. She was worth the drive! I am not so sure about the saying on here about factory grills being designed for extreme conditions, specifically pulling a trailer uphill in Death Valley.

I was still an hour from the Phoenix area, and I was still at a higher elevation, so it was cooler. I was not pulling a trailer, but apparently my grill block, which is just a rectangle of coroplast that I screwed into the license plate holes, blocked too much air when I drove uphill!

That same canyon, but traveling in the other direction, a semi or something overturned. I could not even recognize it! Highway Patrol blocked off the road and traffic was backed up for several miles!

My ex-girlfriend had whoever changed the oil last install the Quick Valve.

Now she is leaking oil.

The oil pan for my HX does not look anything like the steel one for my friend's Accord. I do not know if any of the three pans that we have used are Honda, but all of them are thin steel. The one difference from this image is that the bolt only has as many threads as the pan, it does not extend further.

I wonder if the steel Civic pans are as thick as the aluminum ones.