Is sugarcane ethanol better than from corn?
 

Today my global energy professor said that, stating that corn ethanol was not sustainable, while sugarcane is extremely efficient. I think that it was more of a side note, he did not explain further.

Can please one of you shed some insight? :)

Sugarcane is a NATURALLY growing plant in most tropical/sub-tropical regions (ie: Brazil, Hawaii, etc.); corn is NOT.

Sugarcane is NOT a viable source of ethanol in the USA due to import taxes.

Corn based ethanol made in the USA uses just as much, if not MORE resources to make than is gained by the production.

i read a book a last year called "alcohol can be a gas" the auther claims most corn in the US goes to feed animals for meat.
cows are really bad at digesting sugers, so corn made into ethanol removes the sugars, leaving cooked protiens and fiber. he claims the left over distillers grains are a better food for cattle, than the raw grain with all of the starch still in place,
the same bushel of grain cooked for alcohol with the starch removed will grow healthier cattle, bigger, faster.


it was a good read and he lists alot of crops for ethanol production, with potential gallons per acre, as well as considerations for things like climate, drought resistance, soil quality etc.

his take away was that corn is not a great source for ethanol because it requires really prime farm land, lots of fertalizer, and irigation,

but if you are growing corn anyway its better to make ethanol with it first, then feed it to animals not ment to eat a high grain diet

i believe this is the guy.
Permaculture & Alcohol Can Be A Gas

FWIW info: the name "C & H" Sugar stood for California & Hawaii, because Hawaii grew the SUGAR CANE (later switching to sugar BEETS) which were shipped to California where they were processed into raw SUGAR.

So-o-o-o, maybe we (Hawaii?) should consider revisiting it's ROOTS and think about becoming an AUTOMOTIVE FUEL producer...again???

I would think that an acre of sugarcane would yield more ethanol than an acre of corn, mostly due to the increased solar energy from regions capable of growing sugarcane.

Russians make vodka from potatoes, so wouldn't this be the cheapest way to make ethanol in the States?

You can extract usable sugar from all these crops and make booze from any and all of them. But the United States Government's Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms has a powerful, controlling force over all those things: Revenooers. Men with badges and guns will come and prosecute you. Their government mob includes dictating the production and use of alcohol for use as a gasoline additive, instead of it being made into booze or utilizing the corn as animal feed to fatten livestock for food production. This supposedly lowers the cost of gasoline, but it raises the cost of food produced, domestically. If you control the supply and production of any commodity, you influence and ultimately control the market.

But you can now profit from selling pot - it is permitted if you live in Colorado - and the government will turn a blind eye to that.

Of course, there is no politics involved in any of this, is there? :rolleyes:

Is is merely a coincidence that both politic$ and profit begin with "P" -- I think not (wink,wink)!

C & H ... pure can sugar ... from Hawaii ... growing in the sun...
Well that's all I remember while watch Gilligan's Island after school during comerical break's .lol

https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/...11782928_n.jpg

Sugarcane is better at making ethanol than corn because it has more sugar!

Bryn, thanks for sharing that! Would the digestive problems with cows eating corn give them more gas? I have read statistics on how much methane cows produce.

The amount of methane generated by the bacteria inside the cattle's digestive tract is related to the starch at a certain amount, so distillation-dried grain (DDG) is a good option to feed cattle instead of raw corn. Regarding sugarcane vs. ethanol, nowadays even in Brazil there are some ethanol mills using corn to keep operating all year-round instead of just from November to March.

Sugar cane is seasonal, just as corn is. Why not also throw in sugar beets?

Sugar beets are not so usual in Brazil. But there are also many other options, such as rice, sorghum, wheat, potatoes, well, nearly anything. BTW once Brazil had to import grape-based ethanol from Italy...

I did not spend much time at Bryn's link, but I do want to read more when I have the time, which I have been wasting otherwise... I highly recommend this: Why Alcohol Fuel? The Two-Minute Summary

Do corn and sugarcane have alternating seasons? I do not even know how to look into that, I tried.

Isn't the higher the sugar content the better for producing alcohol? My family does not drink alcohol, so I figure that is why I do not know anything about it, except that it burns pretty! :)

Grape-based ethanol? Wine? :)

Sugar cane growing season discussed here: Sugar cane

Basically, it's year-around in tropical regions, but only 7-8 months in temperate areas like continental USA.

Yet we are not allowed to produce our own.
 

Don't get me started on that one...

It would be so easy to build a small distillation unit for home use to make ethanol to supplement your fuel. For example, there is so much overripe/discarded fruit at the grocery stores that is so full of sugar that is nearly furmenting on it's own before you get it home.

But the Federal laws and regulations are based upon prohibition and are so out-dated and stringently written to make it impossible for an individual to exercise any self-sufficiency with respect to alcohol production, (or tobacco too). It's pitiful and sad -- we let the government waste our time and our lives, by enduring such stupidity.

Humans can't digest corn. Cows with multiple stomachs have a difficult time. It has to be cooked or processed to get benefit. Anything with starch can be turned to sugar, and from there to ethanol, starting with pure sugar just skips a step.

The permaculture 2-minute guide was interesting but it just made me mad to think again that i can't make my own ethanol, yet it would be so easy to do.

When stupid prohibition laws are passed, such as Nixon's 55-mph speed limit, the people rebelled and voted with their right foot. The penalty for non-compliance was a speeding ticket and a small fine. But for home-based ethanol production the penalties are too severe to take the risk--it's a crying shame...

...from what I see on reality-TV, the "hillbilly" rednecks are STILL bootlegging ethanol rather openly...well, at least as shown on TV.

KennyBobby, I need to wait to read your message, I just came home from Church and need to go back out, but I received an e-mail from my professor, he linked me: Corn vs Sugar Cane for Ethanol

which states:
So, sugarcane produces more ethanol and produces its own energy, while corn requires outside energy to produce ethanol.

An acre of corn will yield 30 million btu's of ethanol per year.
An acre of solar panels in the dessert will yield 4,500 million btu's per year.

In a dessert wasteland without water, fertilizer, or distilling potential food.

An electric car can be 2-3 times or more efficient per btu than an ethanol powered car, while having zero emissions.

This is the basic truth. Its a pretty inefficient process and very energy intensive, but the ddg are just as good as a feed and they collect the co2 that is produced.

As far as the controversy over government subsidized farming for ethanol and ethanol content mandates.... well the government typically screws everything up.

Why do we have corn subsidies? I read on permaculture.com that people complain about corn and ethanol subsidies, while oil subsidies are 1,250 times as much. As I mentioned, I do not know anything about alcohol, but do they not sell microbrew kits? What part of making your own alcohol is legal and what isn't?

At the same time, as Sheepdog pointed out, solar is 150 times as efficient as corn. If sugarcane is 9x as efficient as corn, then solar is 16 times as efficient as sugarcane. Solar electric does not have any emissions. Would the sugarcane sufficient to power one car also be adequate to capture the carbon it emits?

Honestly, I think that there is much more room for improvement with solar electric than sugarcane. I would actually like to see a hippy bragging that his car was powered by non-genetically-engineered corn, while my bicycle is powered by genetically-engineered sugarcane.

Solar panels do not need pesticides.

a bit of a tangent, i do not contribute $ to political campaigns at all, but I always vote. i love electric cars, as i love solar panels. but can't afford either. so for my (average $800) car I'll put in as much non petroleum fuel as i can. and from as local a source as possible. i am happy to pay the taxes. and happy to pay the extra 1cent per kw for renewable electron pumping sources. etc.

xist, i believe the highest alcohol/water concentrations that yeasts can survive in are 20-22% alc. by vol.

most of the aplicable laws for home made motor fuel would be about concentrating the alcohol by distiling or freezing. the home distilation laws are a hangover from prohibition that no social cause has gotten behind to overturn.

In most places you can home brew your own wine or beer. But you can't set up a still and make the hard stuff.

As for subsidies (corporate welfare), most big business gets subsidized, often brought about through political lobbying and influence.

Making alcohol is so easy that in Brazilian jails the inmates make their own booze usually out of rice, fruit peels and corn leftovers, it's called "Maria Louca" (Crazy Mary).


Sure the higher sugar content leads to a more efficient alcohol production. Regarding grape-based ethanol from Italy, since your family doesn't drink alcohol, I bet you never heard about grappa, an Italian distillate similar to the Brazilian cachaça, but made out of the mashed grape leftovers from wine production.

Yes, grappa is very potent and also full of impurities. The same applies to what in the U.S. is called "sherry" (originating in Jerez, Andalucia). As with your "Maria Louca" the stuff from which it is made is literally from 'the bottom of the barrel', compared to more highly distilled liquor.