Survey: Solar Powered Home and EV Adopters
 

I'm just curious as to people's thoughts on photo-voltaic panels for their homes.

- Do you have them?
- Are you seriously planning to get them?
- Do you use a battery backup?
- Do you directly charge an EV with them? Would you?
- Is/was having solar power a factor in deciding to own an EV?
- What would you do differently now if starting from scratch?

I'm not really interested in the politics of clean vs. dirty power etc. (There's another thread for that.)

I have a 4.96kW array that I had installed early last year, and I am currently working on a DIY addition of another 1.2kW (as Grape Solar is based here and has some scratch and dent panels I'll be picking up on Monday).

I will probably add even more panels down the road, but at significantly more cost with the need for a second inverter.

Mine is grid tied for whole house use with no backup and single net metered at 1:1 pricing.

I did not get the EV because I suddenly started thinking green about solar. There was no correlation of the two.

I do wish I had made a provision for battery backup, not for extended use, but to keep the array functional if/when the power does go out. It hasn't happened in the nearly 3 years I have lived here, but Cascadia quake zone and all, staring at 6.2kW of dead panels on the roof would be a soul-killer post disaster. I also want to be able to charge my EV in that event. :\

I also wish I had gone with a larger inverter from the start, but that's not a huge cost factor to future expansion. My current one will likely be at 100% capacity with the additional 1.2kW I am adding, but I have roof and ground space for more.

home photovoltaic
 

For me,purchasing wind-generated power from my electric Coop worked out to be more pragmatic.
We have enough cloud cover to be a deal-breaker for solar,while the wind is really reliable.
I pay a flat 13-cents/kWh.And I'm squirreling away all that I can for a second-hand entry-level EV.20-miles range would exceed most of my needs.
I do have a modest PV array,and have enjoyed 10-years off the grid,and a solar-charged electric scooter,but it's more of a technology demonstrator than 'real' transportation.

I'm trying to get solar.
I installed sub panels to free up space in my main panel.
The coop requires that the solar power tie in through the main and so I can add EV charging circuits.

I have no plans to get solar, though I might if subsidies make them attractive enough to justify the upfront cost.

I'm more interested in micro-hydro and would like to purchase property that is conducive to that.

Since I'm in Oregon, wind probably makes more sense. That is the most likely route I will go.

None of that has any bearing on me wanting to get an EV (which I do). Perhaps if there were a smart way to use the car as emergency house power, that would influence my decision. I've got no interest in battery backup apart from making an EV dual purpose because batteries are so expensive and it's a waste of resources considering the grid is my "battery".

Over priced here, plus limited sunlight hours...so not happening as things stand.

Our electricity is all hydro generated anyway, and 10c a kwh...as much as I'd enjoy being off-grid, there's no real point.

The electricity here mostly comes from coal and wind power and the base rate is 7 cents a KwH. My entire bill divided consumption is between 9 and 10 cents with the surcharge added in.

I literally jumped on the Oregon tax credit at the last minute the previous year. Going from 30% to nil overnight made it go from worth paying somebody else to install it to being obscenely expensive again without going DIY.

As a field service technician, I see so many homes with running streams nearby that don't utilize micro-hydro, I die a little inside each time. Most people have no clue about that.

Tesla 3.66 kW solar, Nissan Leaf
 

I agree with what somebody else said, there's no need to get an EV and solar power at the same time. But, we're very glad we got both. We got the Leaf first and solar power about 1.5 years later. If I could only choose one, I would pick the EV before solar power.

The Nissan Leaf probably saves $1,000/year on gas and maintenance and it's more fun than the old ICE (internal combustion engine) car.

Our Tesla 3.66 kW system was designed to cover about 75% of our home electric bill. This December it was 80% covered, so maybe our savings will be more than expected. Tesla was pretty expensive compared to other options but I don't regret it, and it will pay off in the long term. Breakeven is about 14 years. Customer service has been good and I like the Google Nest they gave us. The Google Nest saves lots of energy, too.

Unfortunately my town in Texas doesn't have any extra solar rebates and electricity is already cheap (~10c/kWh). So we're in an area where rooftop solar barely makes sense, financially.

My only regret is not waiting a bit longer because Tesla just dropped solar prices by "up to 20%." With the 20% price drop, it would have been a very easy decision to go solar.

We're pretty much maxed out on roof and yard space. I toy with doing a ground solar installation for my parents in Colorado because they have plenty of open fields and good rebates.

The answer to most of your questions is location, location, location for me.
Western Washington has too many cloudy days, and I have too many tall trees to the south to really use solar.
My brother has some big trees south of his array in Yakima, but Yakima has many more days of great solar. He also has solar hot water and a geothermal heat pump system that I helped install.

I've seen similar situations too. Sometimes even some makeshift resorting to an old car alternator, a battery and eventually some inverter could already do the trick, since some appliances are either also available in 12-volt options meant to be used on board of a vehicle or can resort to an inverter.

We have a 10.1kW rooftop PV array. And we have 2 EV's - we have had 2 for over 5 years.

My plan / hope is to get a battery system to be able to use electricity rather than feeding the grid, and to be able to use the panels when there is a grid outage.

If you are asking about charging the EV's from the battery - then that is not very likely. We do plug the EV's in during a sunny day, when we can.

Yes - we have long hoped / planned on having both solar PV and EV's. The benefits of each is greatly enhanced by the other.

I am not sure what you are getting at in your last question - can you explain what you mean?

You have a bit more sun than Germany, and even places like Orkney have some solar PV.

That's also what I would consider to do if I weren't living in an apartment instead of a house or a country estate. Having some power storage would be desirable when time comes for some scheduled maintenance to the power generation system too.

Don't read too much into it really. Mostly wondering if people would size their array larger or smaller, start out with a battery backup, or avoid it altogether, etc.

I keep looking at the battery backup thing, and the electronics and panels I would need still pale in comparison to the cost for a solid battery. (My free 10kW generator will do for now, though a propane conversion remains on the to-do list.)

I did pickup 1.2kW of Grape Solar panels locally this week, and I've been researching what I need to do to add them onto the current system. Fortunately the legal hurdles appear to be just a new net metering agreement and electrical permit. No other permits required as they will technically be added as a wall mounted awning.

Frankly, I wish I would have had the resources to do the entire system earlier before the state tax credit evaporated. Now as a DIY add-on, the cost factors remain the same, but I HAVE TO DO ALL OF THE WORK! :P

I should have had them wire in a genset outlet outside as well as a critical loads panel and EVSE outlet. I probably could have included that all for the tax credit!

I did just discover last week that EWEB, our local utility, offers a $300 rebate for an EV purchase. That check is supposedly already in the mail. :)

You can use grid tie power when the grid goes out.
Just need a sunny boy SPS serries inverter.
Only thing is it will only produce power while the sun is up, as it does not use batteries.

I don't see the point of battery backup at all unless the solar system is off-grid entirely. A generator is a couple hundred bucks new. Who cares if it burns a gallon of fuel every other year?

The only way I see a battery as useful is to game TOU pricing to charge them up when electricity is cheap and discharge when they are paying top dollar for electricity.

The truth is that economically, aside from disaster preparedness, TOU really is the only way they make sense for grid connected locations. Disaster preparedness is my primary focus.

I'm thinking it may make more sense to just store a lot of propane.

I'm not a harcore prepper or anything. I just keep flashing back to the fact that Puerto Rico is still a shambles, and I have little doubt about the current administration's lack of resolve to help out our home state much.

Sometimes I do wish going off-the-grid. Would also not disconsider a genset as a way to get rid of waste cooking greases and eventually supplement it with biomethane :D

I want to go off grid as much as possible.
Last agriculture auction I went to I got a 250 gallon propane tank and a 1,600 gallon water tank for rain water catchment.
Propane is more for convince, small price to pay to keep my wife around.

Going completely off grid costs a fair bit of cash. From a solar array or wind gen or both, to expensive batteries, to the electronics.

I have a storage building that cannot be serviced by the grid, since it is intended only to store equipment and is zoned that way. But I checked before I bought it - solar is not against the rules. So I have three 250W panels, charge controller, a 12V LiFePO4 pack and a 3000W modified sine wave inverter. It runs 12V lights, or 120V LED lights (kinda wastefully), and it'll run a tablesaw, a compressor, and charge my USB stuff while I'm working there.

And it STILL cost me almost $1000 out of pocket. I bought the panels, charge controllers and inverter. I used a re-purposed LiFePO4 battery pack, and most of the rest of the stuff I had already and recycled or upcycled.

Modified sine wave inverters are junk.

I've had 3 of them fail on me over the last ten years under moderate use. (Two of which my employer purchased.) Hoping that pure sine inverters are better engineered . . particularly since I just ordered a Goal Zero Yeti 1000. 1500W continuous should provide enough capacity for a day of keeping the fridge running.

I decided to go that route in basically building a standalone system for a shed I will be building in the spring. 400 watts of 12V portable panels should be enough to keep it going during normal use without leaving me dead out of power when I don't want to / can't run the generator during an outage.

I'm trying to essentially build a versatile backup system that could charge my car (10k generator), charge a separate battery, or be basically useful for camping and other light use.

Honestly, it's something my original PV installer rep advised me people are doing as an intermediate SHTF power lapse backup. I wasn't originally convinced, but the more I have done the math on it, the more it made sense to me short of building everything DIY and all of the hassles that go along with engineering it. (I had to figure what my time is really worth as part of that cost.)

If I can just find a relatively inexpensive larger propane tank at this point, I'll be pretty much set on that.

My brother has visited the local recycler often in the past few years. People drop off expired propane tanks that are not empty - when they move, or get different BBQs. 25 lbs is not a lot of propane, but if you are around to change tanks, and you have a few tanks available ... it's cheap

They likely are, as a general rule.

I've only killed a couple of little ones (75W, 400W) when I wasn't paying attention and let them get too hot.

I've had a 1500W running very intermittent (once a month maybe) for a couple of years. This 3000W will run a bit more often, but is hugely over-sized for all but the compressor.

I'll let you know when they die (notice, I didn't say IF)

Starting to rethink the 10k generator part today though. The Yeti can be charged fully in just a few hours with a small 900W propane generator. Between the two, the lowest 110V charge rate for my i3 would get me usable range in a pinch, which is really all that I am looking for there.

Have you looked at the charge difference between 120 and 240v power on the same charger?
Notice how 120v charging takes more than double the time to charge.
Why do you need a 10kw generator you can get evse units that oitput little as 8 amps.
Even my lowly converted Panasonic made granny charger will do about 2.9kw. A 7kw generator should be able to handle that no problem.

My house is not well sited for PV due to shade trees. Community solar would be my best avenue. I would consider a wood gas generator on a trailer for disaster relief.

That's basically where I am at with it now. 6A maximum draw from my i3 on the lowest 120V charge setting should be no problem for even the smallest propane generator. (Looking at the Ryobi FWIW.) It would take 24 hours for a full charge of my car, but I wouldn't be needing anywhere near that range unless it was bug-out time. Not really planning for that scenario though!

The nice thing is that the Yeti provides some flexibility there with being able to charge by generator power and provide from the battery simultaneously. So my little 900W generator could conceivably be providing a real world 1500W sustained until the Yeti battery drained even if the Yeti can really only take about 400W sustained charge power. That's really probably only an hour of boosted output, but as attractive as 10kW sounds, it's clearly not practical.

EV use out of the picture, a few 12V solar panels and the Yeti should be all I need to keep the fridge and lights on unless the weather is absolutely horrible.

Community solar is such an awesome concept. I've thought about trying to get my HOA to do solar awnings for a private park area we have established. I'm not familiar with others' experiences with doing that though. We aren't really close to a point where that is likely to happen for a few years anyway.

Scratch the Ryobi. I thought the 900W was sustained. Gonna have to look a little bigger than that. A 1500W sustained rating would be more realistic a rating for EV charging at 6A.

HOAs are stupid. Do we really need more bureaucrats further restructuring what we do?
I want solar panels, I can do roof top, or ground mount or both.
Why see approval to do something with your own house or land, it boggles the mind.

Well, if I were satisfied not being able to do whatever I want at home, I wouldn't complain so much about living in an apartment. HOAs are uncommon in my country, even though some gated housing complexes might also have some stupid rules, but AFAIK none preventing renewable energies to be individually implemented.

No restrictions in the one I live in, and frankly, I didn't even ask before putting panels on my roof, as another neighbor already had some. (I'm also the president . . :D)

Regardless, I am settling on a new plan for the new panels. They are going to remain isolated from the house system and feed directly into a charge controller for 2 Model S modules to charge from. That'll provide almost 10kWh of backup power when full, but also more than enough to charge my car most days since I rarely go through even 1/4 of it's 22kWh capacity.

That also eliminates any need for even electrical permits if I install it all in a way to be portable or temporary as far as the county is concerned.

I honestly really dig the idea of being able to say that it costs me literally nothing to drive my car on the average day.

Unless the solar panels fall like mana from the sky, you literally can't say it cost you nothing to drive EVs (model Ses?)

Everything costs something. Walking out to your mailbox, wiping your butt, etc. .

Once the investment is there however, it is only limited by it's longevity, not how much it is utilized.

'Energy Futures' with no down side perhaps . .

I think this is the future of solar. My house needs an 8 KW system to reach zero electric bill.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYmfF4Sqc3g&t=215s

Unless it's been changed, your electricity billing company must pay for your excess conditioned power that you feed back into the grid, at the same rate at which they purchase the KWs to send to you. That is how you can get a zero or better electric bill. Usually, given a system with sufficient excess KW, the payback/break even period can be as short as 6 years. That's when solar becomes free. https://news.energysage.com/understa...ayback-period/

6 years is optimistic. Unless one is willing to DIY the whole thing, 8-10 is more realistic if subsidies from one's state are close to the federal credit.

E.g., power is pretty inexpensive here in Eugene, Oregon at about $0.10, so I'm looking at a payback of close to 8-9 years on my original professionally installed system after 60% combined tax credits given what production I have seen so far. Living where it is 20 cents would obviously cut that in half with similar subsidies. (But only a handful of states compare to Oregon's now expired credit.)

The reality is that even if the payback period is 15-20 years, it's still money ahead through lowered bills, and usually as much as the cost of the system installed lumped on top of the value of the property when sold or refinanced.