Synthetic Oil save more gas?
 

If it saves more gas, what is the best brand name? I've heard Royal Purple or Amsoil... If you use synthetic oil, what filter are you using? I doubt regular Fram filter can last 10K without clog.

I know K&N also makes oil filters. Not sure how much better they are for mileage, but I've heard they do something with the way oil flows back into the engine to give you better starts for bettter engine life. (Which, ultimately would make better gas mileage at a certain point, I suppose? At least it's more efficient in a sense anyway)

Eh, I'm not too sold on superb effects from synthetic or filters. I can see lighter oil weights, but it would take a lot of lab testing to sell me on synthetics.

My car has always burned oil, so I don't bother with expensive synthetic oil anymore. I used to use Valvoline MaxLife Synthetic Blend and I think I got slightly better MPG results but it could be entirely anecdotal.

That's why I post this thread again. I did a lot of reading in several forums. People say synthetic oil should save some gas because it lubricates better. However, nobody says he got FE increase like 1 mpg or 2 mpg. If the claim for 2% is correct, cars get 40+mpg must see the increase in FE (0.8mpg) Even it is not exact 2% increase, maybe we can find 0.5mpg increase consistently. Anyone can see the different after using synthetic oil?

Consumer Reports found no measurable difference in FE or the amont of particulates in the used oil.

I don't think it makes much difference on FE, but the extended drain intervals are worth it for me.

+ using less oil (better for environment) and might end up costing less in terms of your money plus what your time is worth on changing the oil twice instead of once.

Synthetic doesn't really cost too much more ($5-6) for the oil upgrade plus ($1-3) for the filter upgrade and you only have to get messy once every 7500-10000 miles

I run synthetic in everything I drive. Synthetics like Mobil1 EP and the like also save wear on your engine. Real synthetics don't push or squeeze out of bearings like conventional oils do. So, say you lean your engine out a little to pick up a few more mpgs and there is a little more detonation than normal. Under certain loads this would equate to a spun rod bearing and no less than having to turn the crank and put new bearings in. Synthetic buys a little bit more cushion for your bearings.

I upgraded some of the internal engine parts in my buick grand national. I yanked the engine and opened it up to find zero carbon buildup anywhere the parts just wiped clean and had near zero wear after 80K miles of spirited turbo driving. Even if I don't see a mpg gain, I'm running it to protect the engine.

Do you have some sort of references on oil change interval with synthetic? I guess it would depend on filter too?

You all need to be made aware that synthetic blends might only be 20% synthetic! You can get the same or better results bt using a qt of full synthetic and the remainder as regular oil.

A few years ago the oil brands started pulling zinc out of their oils and now a lot of racers and older cars are starting to have issues with camshafts and bearings. I change my regular oil every 2000 miles and my 1sr motor lasted 100K, second motor 150K, but my 3rd motor has ruined rod bearings and the cam is worn .005"......I will use synthetic in every thing I own now...they don't have that problem.:thumbup:

As far as filters...Fram and K & N are no better than a reguler Purolator or Wix. The Purolator Pure One is also no better....some where out there on the web is an oil filter study...all tested were cut appart and dismantled. A lot of the filters use cardboard and glue...some have tendencies to fall apart internally during race or hard use applications...they wont stop oil, just wont filter as well.

I did this in my old Sentra, two quarts good dino oil and two quarts mobil1 (before they changed the formula).

If you guys are running synthetic, be aware they aren't the same. Most store bought synthetics are base3 stock and provide a little more benfit than dino oil. Things like Mobil1 EP are made from base4 stock and are what most people have always thought synthetics to be. I run mbile1 EP in my Sentra and grand national. The sentra because it turns at 3500rpm for two hours at a time and the grand national because the oil won't coke in the turbo when the engine is shut off and because of the zinc issue ataylorracing pointed out.

The reason you don't see big improvements with FE using a synthetic is that it really only does a significantly better job when the engine is cold. Once everything's warmed up they are pretty much equals.

Mobil One full synthetic is by far the best motor oil available - but not neccessarily for fuel efficiency. The breakdown resistance and engine longevity are the better (Consumer Reports magazine). Mobil One is one of the few PAO oils around (Royal Purple and Amsoil are others, more but I can't remember), but the cobalt (or cadmium - I can't remember that either) compound greatly decreases engine wear (Motor Cyclist magazine test).

For something I can remember, Mobil One full synthetic gained me over a full mpg just by switching oils, and not the thin stuff, either. The Fram Toughguard oil filter is my recommendation for oil filters, but only based on filtering ability.

You'd likely see better gains from putting synthetic tranmission oil in the car vs synthetic motor oil.

I already had synthetic in the trans and differential when I switched to synthetic in the engine. It was just based on the scheduling of the fluid changes... Again, maybe just my application, but the stuff worked for me...

I don't really believe there is a need to go with something else than oem filters. If anything, install a bypass filter, now that's more worth it.

synthetics
 

As I understand it,all synthetic oils have viscosities which are actually lower than what is listed on the label.They are not permitted to advertise the lower viscosity,however,they flow more freely when cold,than a straight mineral oil of the same label rating.So for cold starts especially,pumping losses are reduced,and fully-warmed viscosity is no lower,and do offer slight savings.Synthetics have been claimed to swell seals,and it has been claimed that if you switch to a full synthetic,then switch back to a straight mineral oil,you run the risk of oil leaks.

Are you talking about the one they did 15 years ago on taxis? Not the greatest study ever done.


Synthetic engine oil can give a few % better gas mileage (about 2% is the norm).

The thing that will really impact mileage is synthetic transmission fluid and/or differential fluid. On my automatics there are 15 quarts of fluid in there, that's a lot to get pumped around!

However, if you want to try synthetic engine oil for better mileage I'd recommend two treatments of Auto-Rx Engine Cleaner first in conventional oil and then follow it up with a PAO (not group III) synthetic. I'm a big fan of AMSOIL's ASL 5w30

Here's what I mean by PAO/Group III:

Synthetic Motor Oil Gets All New Semantics - Column/Patrick Bedard/C/D Staff/Columns/Features/Car and Driver - Car And Driver

Don't forget a good filter:

Filter Comparisons

Any of our Vibe/Matrix drivers know how much tranny fluid is in an auto transmission? I am going to do a synthetic change on Tuesday and wanted to know how many quarts to buy for the Vibe. Thanks

I will be using Amzoil if anyone wanted to know ...

I use Amsoil 10-30, Did a 1,500 mile test before and after. No improvement in MPG. Wish it had helped but it didn't.

I do use their bypass filter system and routinely go 50,000 miles between oil changes. Oil analysis says I'm discarding good oil but I lose my nerve after two years' service.

According to my book:

Automatic Transmission, U341F AWD Initial Fill..........3.1 quarts
Automatic Transmission, U341F FWD Initial Fill..........2.2 quarts
Automatic Transmission, A246E Initial Fill..........3.2 quarts

Of AMSOIL Universal ATF and not the torque drive ATF.

And it's AMSOIL! No Z. It used to have a Z in it many years ago but Pennzoil got mad and sued them.

AMSOIL's engine oils tend to be on the thicker side ("30" is a range of viscosities) and that's why they usually don't increase mileage much. Sure, less drag because the majority of molecules are of just a few sizes.

Synthetic ATF also does a great job during the winter because of it's viscosity curve. Most ATFs are 5w20 weight oils, but synthetic is 0w20 so it's more fluid in the cold.

Thanks for the info, in this case it was a bit of fat finger typing that made the error.

But now that you brought it up, take a look at there logo. The way the A is shaped kinda leads you to think there is a Z in there somewhere.

Clever, just like the Fedex arrow ... LOL

Car maunfacturers state 5k between changes. Oil companies state 3k.
they both have something to gain from you taking their advice. Car makers = shorter life
Oil Makers = buy more oil.
Most people agree that you can run synth oil about 7,000 miles.
I listen to what the diesel VW crowd says. Diesels' engine oil gets dirty fast.
there are diesel VW guys who use synth and change only the filters twice as frequently. They claim they can make their oil good for 15,000 miles. They might buy the most expensive synth oil and change their filter every 3,000 miles.
I've never done it, but it makes sense if you are buy $10 a quart oil.

I'm not sure if 3k miles vs 5k miles makes a big difference if your engine is ok (diesel injectors in good condition etc). In Europe, VAG is offering crazy 2 year/30 000 km (max) interval, I think that's definitely too much for any oil. They call it "Long life" system, but Short life would describe it better..

Btw, my relative has a Merc with OM642 diesel engine, he has driven 250 000 km with 6-8 month/25 000 km oil change intervals (229.51 low ash 5w-30 oil), and there is nothing wrong with the engine. DPF has been replaced once, expensive stuff..

Auto manufacturers have nothing to gain by recommending an oil change interval greater than optimal. The company would have a bad reputation for making cars that don't last, and besides, those that purchase new cars don't keep them until the engine dies. Instead the car is sold used to someone else, and a new car is purchased again.

I go 12,000 miles between oil changes and don't change my filter either. I see no reason why it would clog to the point of the bypass valve opening. Is there any evidence to suggest filters clog shortly after 3,000 miles on a typical engine?

It definitely isn't too long for a good oil designed for the purpose.
It does come at a price though - but you still win in the long run.
Just don't pour in regular oil and hope it'll do as well ... it won't.
Plenty of cars are using these extended "long life" service intervals without issues.

Do you even have any idea how long oil stays in the engine of a truck ?
They don't change it, they check it.
It's only changed when the check indicates a problem or that the oil has worn out.

None whatsoever ...

Shortest oil change intervals in Europe are now 15.000 km / 9320 mls.
20.000 km is very common, and more and more cars are getting 30.000 km service intervals.
VW have ended the 50.000 km service intervals not because of the oil, but because other issues get too much time to develop before they get spotted.

Filters are rather cheap, so they are usually changed during an oil swap - but not always when on a short service cycle, where they then get swapped every other oil change.

The oils are clean, the fuel is clean, and engine wear is / should be minimal.
What would clog the oil filter :confused:


On a sooty diesel, better swap the filter along with the oil.
Same when operating in a very dusty environment, where more silicon (sand) ends up in the oil.
When using dubious fuel or oil: change the filter more often.

Yes, I have "some" idea

Trucks have

- larger sump capacity
- proper oil cooling, better filtration and lubrication system
- different grade, lower viscosity index and higher viscosities than in passenger cars, higher content of goodies like phosporus to protect from wear etc
- different load profile, no 5 minute trips to post office and back with cold engine

(I don't mind if someone wishes to spare miniscule amount of money by avoiding oil changes, it's his/hers property...)

I switched to Mobile1 0w20 in my engine and had little noticeable gains (maybe 1-2% from Amsoil 5w20). I put the same Mobile1 0w20 in my transmission (after allot of research to confirm this choice) and seem to have gotten around 5% form this. It is hard to quantify the effectiveness accurately without strict testing, therefore I'm guessing that this is how much improvement is coming from these changes.

Viscosity is what matters for mileage increasements.

Unfortunately lower viscosity increases engine wear, at least in an engine which isn't designed for low viscosities.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...els-25942.html

I didn't put 0w20 oil in my diesel :p I was referring to my festiva in the previous post. my diesel has 10w30 mobile1 full synthetic.

Sure. It's not for everyone.

i always put a little heavier oil in because in texas it so freaking hot and i have some leaks and i think i burn a little oil. like 10-30. should i just be using super light oil anyways? also i put some marvelous mystery oil in with oil change too. i think that makes it alot lighter.

speaking of which. i put like 2/3 of a quart of marvelous mystery oil in on my last oil change. for the past 150K miles the oil has been black. now after this oil change it is crystal clear.

How much oil is your car using? It's normal for cars to use some oil over time.

My old Subaru used a quart every 2000 miles from the day I got her at 119,000 miles. Oil use increased significantly when I used 10W 30, and decreased when I used 10W 40.

The higher viscosity will usually leak more slowly and protect the engine better, at the cost of a marginal amount of fuel economy.

well at one point it seemed like it was going through a quart like every 500 miles. maybe im exaggerating. it was on a 2000 mile trip. but i fixed the distributor seal and cam seal and it helped alot! i see a bunch of oil at the bottom of the timing cover and im afraid it might be my front mail but i dont know. could just be all the oil that leaked down from the cam seal. also my vtec solenoid is leaking. but currently the oil leakage has slowed down alot! running 10/30 i think with the MMO which thins it out quite a bit.

Unless you are seeing below zero temps on a regular basis (like in the winter) you will not benefit in seeing higher fuel economy. I have run synthetic for most of my Corolla's life up until recently and experienced no change in fuel economy, in fact in the Corolla (switched 8000kms ago) I am seeing some of my best tanks yet and its no spring chicken.

If you had a turbo car or in the winter, I would run synthetic.