EcoModder.com

EcoModder.com (https://ecomodder.com/forum/)
-   Aerodynamics (https://ecomodder.com/forum/aerodynamics.html)
-   -   T-100 side skirts and belly pan... (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/t-100-side-skirts-belly-pan-24777.html)

BamZipPow 01-29-2013 01:22 PM

T-100 side skirts and belly pan...
 
My belly pan thread...
Under belly pan... - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums

Finally made some time to address the side skirts and move away from the Coroplast which has held up quite well fer the beating they've taken. The tractor trailers that have side skirting uses something similar to FRP. ;)

Cut the new side skirts from FRP and lined everything up so it would look a little more even than the Coroplast setup. I'll have to find some time to clean them up after it stops raining and then I can start painting it black, too. :D

The back edge overlaps the rear wheel skirts by 2". ;)

http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v...s/IMG_2065.jpg

I'll eventually git some rubber conveyor belt strips to line the bottom part of the side skirts and see what that does. :D

The side skirts are supported on the backside with a metal wall stud and blocks of wood at the bolt on points to keep it tight up against my belly pan crossbeam supports. Two 5/16" bolts keep the side skirts in place and takes less than 15 seconds per side to remove using my electric impact wrench. :D

BamZipPow 01-29-2013 01:33 PM

Current view of the bottom of the truck before the side skirts were replaced... ;)
http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v...s/IMG_1976.jpg

2000neon 01-29-2013 01:50 PM

That belly pan is awesome!

Bear32LB 01-29-2013 02:24 PM

Looks good. How much improvement in mpg?

mcrews 01-29-2013 04:16 PM

love it!!

BamZipPow 01-29-2013 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear32LB (Post 353682)
Looks good. How much improvement in mpg?

Well...not exactly sure how much the side skirts on their own contribute to my gas mileage. Haven't played around with the height of the side skirts yet...maybe that might be something to look at once I git the conveyor belt material in. :D

I've entered my fuel data and the various mods from the first day I got my current T-100. I've separated out each years worth so you can see which direction I've gone so far... ;)
1998 Toyota T-100 SR5 Gas Mileage (BZP T-100 current (2013)) - EcoModder.com

plasticuser 01-29-2013 10:50 PM

As a quick project, have you played with the idea of losing the skirts and trying controlling the airflow around the tires?

I can't speak for your truck, but controlling airflow in the wheel arches and around the tire seems to be a much bigger deal.

What do you think?

BamZipPow 01-29-2013 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plasticuser (Post 353771)
As a quick project, have you played with the idea of losing the skirts and trying controlling the airflow around the tires?

I can't speak for your truck, but controlling airflow in the wheel arches and around the tire seems to be a much bigger deal.

What do you think?

Are you suggesting that I pull various pieces off and see what happens or pull everything off except fer the rear wheel skirts? :confused:

The side skirts keep the air between the belly pan and the bottom of the truck from bleeding out. My belly pan is a dropped belly pan method. There is about a 5" gap between the bottom of the truck and the top of the belly pan.

If I pull the aero cap, all the belly pans, rear diffuser, side skirts, and crossbeam supports...should I keep the rear wheel strakes in place or pull those as well?? Do I need to put the front air dam back up to the stock position? If I do that, then I'll need to pull the front air dam belly pan as well. It would take me about an hour to pull everything but a good day to put everything back in place. Not sure I want to go through all that just to see what the rear wheel skirts will do on it's own... ;)

plasticuser 01-29-2013 11:16 PM

The way I see it, and this is only my humble opinion, side skirts seem to work because of the side effect of controlling air hitting the rear tire. Look at how your skirt hits the rear tire.

The air under your truck is 95% passing air and 5% cooling air, which is contracting as it loses heat. For this reason as much as any other you have a low pressure area under the truck, and this increases the depth of the low pressure area behind your truck. Great for handling, doesn't really help with reducing the cd behind your truck.

If you have a full belly pan, so air under your truck is not an issue, directing air around the rear wheels is a win, and it would be worth a good ABA test to see if it helps to put thait air outside the truck, or inside, under the bed.

I suspect that if you put that air under the truck instead of outside, it would have a smooth ride under your belly pan for about 30" then help reduce that low pressure area behind your tailgate.

If you look me up, you'll see I am on a similar path you you. I plan to do ABA testing to see what happens with these options... It would be a good heads up if you did the same :)

:thumbup:

BamZipPow 01-30-2013 12:45 PM

Here's what my T-100 looks like without the side skirt... ;)
http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v...s/IMG_2069.jpg

Tesla 01-30-2013 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamZipPow (Post 353773)
The side skirts keep the air between the belly pan and the bottom of the truck from bleeding out. My belly pan is a dropped belly pan method. There is about a 5" gap between the bottom of the truck and the top of the belly pan.

When you say 5" dropped, is this across the board, then being a 5" x width increase in frontal area?

or

Is it just that there is a 5" drop between body and lowest crossmember and that's the level you had to set the belly pan at?

and

Did you notice any identifiable improvements with the completion of the belly pan?

BamZipPow 01-30-2013 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tesla (Post 353939)
When you say 5" dropped, is this across the board, then being a 5" x width increase in frontal area?

or

Is it just that there is a 5" drop between body and lowest crossmember and that's the level you had to set the belly pan at?

and

Did you notice any identifiable improvements with the completion of the belly pan?

The front air dam is dropped about 6" lower than stock so that the dropped belly pan won't add anything significant to the frontal area. Here's my dropped air dam build... ;)
T-100 dropped air dam

The main belly pan is dropped approximately 5" based on my spacers. I think it's about 4" on the front cross beam and about 5" on the rear cross beam. The transmission/exhaust/drive train is lower than the actual bottom of the truck floor pan. I not sure if I measured the clearance from the bottom of the belly pan to the ground but currently it might be about 7" on the front cross beam and about 8" on the rear cross beam. The belly pan is approximately 2" thick based on the metal wall stud framework. I used to have a top skin to the belly pan but I pulled it to lose some weight as it made it rather difficult to hold the belly pan in place and bolt it down. ;)

This is where I started to build the crossbeam concept fer my belly pan...
Belly pan build-page 3. You should be able to see what I did... ;)

I think my MPGs are more consistent with the belly pan than without. My first generation did okay...but it was more about learning than actually performing.

I think my measurements are:
Bottom of the air dam front edge = ~8"
Bottom of front crossbeam = ~7"
Bottom of rear crossbeam = ~8"
Bottom of differential crossbeam = ~7"
Bottom of rear diffuser rear beam = ~11"

My belly pan is divided up into 4 sections:
1. Air dam belly pan/engine bay belly pan
2. Main belly pan
3. Rear belly pan (after the rear crossbeam and before the rear axle) - hinged to the rear crossbeam
4. Rear diffuser - hinged to the rear belly pan and hinged to the rear support (trailer hitch)

The hinges allows the articulation/flexing of the rear belly pan and rear diffuser as the rear axle moves up/down. :D

Rear diffuser is set to 4°. The bottom of the rear crossbeam will decrease as the bed is loaded down. ;)

Tesla 01-31-2013 05:35 PM

Thanks, had a look,
so overall there might be a 1-2" drop at the lowest members around the axles.

The view under mine is considerably flatter looking, I have coil springs and the lowest points are the axles which when fully loaded are close to level with the rest of the underside, there are still some cavities that could do with smoothing over, but looking at it, I am feeling that mine could be one of those that could swing either way with a belly pan.

BamZipPow 06-26-2014 01:30 AM

It's been a few years since I last worked on the rear side skirts. The road and debris had really worked the rear side skirts over. I had to reinforce them with some extra Coroplast so they would be smooth again. ;)

Took a major hit on the extended rear diffuser after I backed up into some heavy brush. The FRP didn't take kindly and snapped off. Needless to say, I've since replaced it with some 18"x24" Coroplast signs. Perfect fit with two of them. :D

I've been running around over a year with a partial side skirt setup. I reinstalled full side skirts but only with a 2" drop below the belly pan instead of the 4" or so I originally had it. We'll see how it performs on the upcoming road trip. ;)

Piccies will be posted tomorrow... ;)

whatmaycome14 06-26-2014 08:59 AM

Looking good!

BamZipPow 06-26-2014 11:26 AM

Piccies as promised... ;)

New left side skirt
http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v...ps1da74c17.jpg
http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v...psc3e9e023.jpg

New right side skirt
http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v...ps78cd4033.jpg
http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v...ps0eaa0fc8.jpg

Repaired rear skirts
http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v...psed374fef.jpg
http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v...psd1f94772.jpg

Installed a top fence on the rear skirts to see if the dirt being deposited on the rear window can be minimized. ;)
http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v...ps270ffd49.jpg
http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v...psea04d059.jpg
http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v...ps2a9b58c8.jpg

BamZipPow 06-26-2014 11:48 AM

Just so it's understood...the side skirts are attached to a frame which is only attached at the crossbeams. I can't attach them to the rear wheel skirts as any flex in the truck frame will rip the fasteners out. The rear part of the side skirts "float" on top of the rear wheel skirts. At least it makes it very easy to remove the side skirts. ;)

BamZipPow 06-27-2014 08:44 AM

After checking out the carnage to the rear wheel spats (looked like a shotgun hit the Coroplast I used fer making the spats), I've decided to pull them and see what happens with the current setup. ;)

aerohead 06-27-2014 04:12 PM

yellow car & trailer
 
Bam,
my single brain cell finally fired and I realized what you were asking about when youi mentioned the 'yellow' car and trailer.
It's Alan Cocconi's Tzero,of AC Propulsion.
I cut and pasted his rig to create a gap-filled,full-boat-tailed EV range extender
http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/...titled-5-1.jpg
http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/...titled-6-1.jpg

rumdog 04-08-2015 12:52 AM

yellow car and trailer...cut and paste!
 
Ha! Wow nice job there aerohead, that thing looks great in moon disks. You even got the reflection in the fairing, sheesh!
It was worth getting to the end of this informative thread...
Bam a big thanks for sharing your passion with the rest of us out here. I dig your bellypan and skirts. Great photos and documentation.

freebeard 04-08-2015 02:26 AM

I remember the picture but I hadn't noticed who posted it. aerohead does photochops!

I think it works as a Kamm-back without the trailer.

BamZipPow 05-09-2015 02:05 AM

Just got my truck inspected fer its yearly vehicle inspection and the inspector told me that they have to be able to see the rear tire treads fer next year but not required fer this year. So I'll have to pull the rear wheel skirts off before I bring it in next year...not a problem! ;)

BamZipPow 05-26-2015 03:03 PM

With the heavy rains here in Texas yesterday, I had to escort someone to the other side of town. This gave me a chance to go do to some dirt flow modeling. :D

Zipping in through the water, I noticed the water sounded a lot louder than it normally would. Ended up at my destination and made sure my friend made it there safely. As I drove away, I could hear some crunching underneath my truck. Maybe I picked up some debris? :confused:

Pulled off into a parking lot do a walk around inspection. Noticed immediately that my rear wheel skirts had popped open since I didn't really secure them to their front fastening point. Oh well... :(

Looked underneath the truck and found that my main belly pan Coroplast panel was long gone! At least the frame was still there. Guess playing in the water (liquids have up to 200 times more density than gas) ripped it right off the frame and left the screws still attached. The crunching noise was the aluminum flashing dragging on the road. I installed the flashing as a heat shield. I removed what needed to be removed, tucked the flashing back up on top, and had to add more screws to the rear diffuser as some panels had popped off as well to make it home. :(

So after 5 years, my belly pan will have to be rebuilt. Guess I need to put some more time and thought on how to make it a little better. ;)

Now I'm looking at a metal skin...aluminum would be great as steel will probably fairly heavy. The galvanized metal shed roofing panels would be a good direction as they are pretty cheap and would hold up to road abuse and shouldn't git ripped out should I encounter more deep water. ;)

freebeard 05-26-2015 08:54 PM

Steel is heavy, but it's in the right place to lower the center of gravity.

BamZipPow 06-01-2015 12:10 PM

The quick run into Houston yesterday yielded about a 1.5mpg loss with Dark Aero in tow at 65mph. Coming back was a little hectic as it was the standard Sunday evening rush hour traffic with a few slow downs to crawling speed but at least there wasn't any stop and go events going home. :(

BamZipPow 06-26-2015 11:30 AM

Had a crazy idea! Replace the long gone Coroplast with an array of the steel studs! It's only made from 25 gauge but since it's shaped, it will be just as structurally strong as a thicker gauge. The overall weight might be close to using the metal sheets but the studs will be easier to change out if needed. Cost is easily half as using the metal sheets.

If I need to reinforce anything, I can easily stack the reinforcement studs on top of the other ones making a boxed stud. I'll probably do that fer the outer portions of the frame. :D

BamZipPow 06-26-2015 05:34 PM

Decided not to go in the direction of the steel studs due to lack of time before the road trip. Going back to Coroplast fer now. :(

Here's the revised main belly pan frame...with a majority of the 2x4 wood supports removed and replaced with a top cover of the steel studs. I've also removed the T-nuts that I initially installed into the corner supports and will be going to a standard nut and washer setup for the retaining bolts. I'm guessing the frame weighs about 20lbs or so. ;)

Bottom
http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v...psnwknofg4.jpg

Top
http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v...pspqgpt76w.jpg

I'm gonna use my last full sheet of new black Coroplast fer the major coverage and a roll of aluminum flashing fer the remaining space. I may have to stitch some Coroplast together to protect the aluminum flashing. ;)

freebeard 06-26-2015 10:00 PM

I like that better than the wood 2x4s.

BamZipPow 06-27-2015 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 484994)
I like that better than the wood 2x4s.

Just to be clear about the 2x4 wood pieces...none of the main supports on the frame were made from the 2x4 wood pieces. The wood pieces were basically attachment points fer when I installed an upper cover fer the main belly pan. I found out that the wood does retain water and will eventually rust out the steel studs in that area. :(

Here's the only big piece I had on the frame...
http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v...psnp49feup.jpg

It only took me about 45 minutes to skin the main belly pan frame and install it back on the truck. A quick run around town yielded no issues or added noises. It was comforting to be able to not hear the road noises emanating from the bottom of the truck again. :D

Here's what an out of focus shot of the new skin looks like...and it looks like I left off a fastener on the Coroplast side. ;)
http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v...psfmjgxxnl.jpg

hat_man 06-28-2015 12:43 PM

I love this thread and see so many possibilities for my truck. You may have said before, but what did you do around your exhaust to keep it from retaining heat? Also, and again you may have said before or put it in another thread but can you give me any details of the rear "boxing" under the tailgate area? It looks like you added panels to the underside of the bed inward of the tires and then added the rear wheel skirts.

The whole set-up is awesome.

BamZipPow 06-29-2015 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hat_man (Post 485104)
I love this thread and see so many possibilities for my truck. You may have said before, but what did you do around your exhaust to keep it from retaining heat? Also, and again you may have said before or put it in another thread but can you give me any details of the rear "boxing" under the tailgate area? It looks like you added panels to the underside of the bed inward of the tires and then added the rear wheel skirts.

The whole set-up is awesome.

I really haven't addressed any heat management from the exhaust yet. I've been planning on wrapping the entire exhaust pipe from rear of the converter and back. I do know the bed under the aero cap gits rather warm. :(

I have rear skirts (vertical panels) under the bed and between the inside of the wheels. I have a support system that I attached them to to keep them stable. The rear diffuser and the rear wheel strakes keep the rear skirts from flopping around. The rear part of the rear wheel skirts attach to the rear wheel strakes. The end of the diffuser is supported via dual hinges to the trailer receiver hitch. The hinges allow articulation of the diffuser as the rear axle follows the road. The rear diffuser is attached to the rear axle housing. If you read the link at the first post in this thread, you can see how I started my build. ;)

ECONORAM 06-29-2015 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamZipPow (Post 481022)
With the heavy rains here in Texas yesterday, I had to escort someone to the other side of town. This gave me a chance to go do to some dirt flow modeling. :D

Zipping in through the water, I noticed the water sounded a lot louder than it normally would. Ended up at my destination and made sure my friend made it there safely. As I drove away, I could hear some crunching underneath my truck. Maybe I picked up some debris? :confused:

Pulled off into a parking lot do a walk around inspection. Noticed immediately that my rear wheel skirts had popped open since I didn't really secure them to their front fastening point. Oh well... :(

Looked underneath the truck and found that my main belly pan Coroplast panel was long gone! At least the frame was still there. Guess playing in the water (liquids have up to 200 times more density than gas) ripped it right off the frame and left the screws still attached. The crunching noise was the aluminum flashing dragging on the road. I installed the flashing as a heat shield. I removed what needed to be removed, tucked the flashing back up on top, and had to add more screws to the rear diffuser as some panels had popped off as well to make it home. :(

So after 5 years, my belly pan will have to be rebuilt. Guess I need to put some more time and thought on how to make it a little better. ;)

Now I'm looking at a metal skin...aluminum would be great as steel will probably fairly heavy. The galvanized metal shed roofing panels would be a good direction as they are pretty cheap and would hold up to road abuse and shouldn't git ripped out should I encounter more deep water. ;)

BZP, that was my experience with corroplast on the belly. At least as an engine tray. Hit one big puddle around 20 mph and tore it all up. Truck now sports a 1/8" ABS plastic sheet (cut to fit...), and aluminum center panels down the belly. Haven't quite figured out how to get past the rear axle yet, but I'll get there eventually.:snail:
Used plywood for a splitter, and even when I painted it 2x w/oil based paint, then covered it with RTV it still rotted. Sigh. Also learned pine doesn't do well for this either. I've been using what I'd call garage door strap metal. It looks like an L channel that's 1 1/4" wide by 6 feet long, with holes drilled every inch or so. Just the plain flat pieces are too flimsy, but the L channel is much stiffer and works pretty good. Can't seem to find a picture though.

BamZipPow 07-24-2015 11:30 AM

Finally got some time to address the main belly pan again. Screwed in that screw that I missed when I reskinned the belly pan. I added in some extra support on the sides fer the main belly pan. Seems it started sagging a bit from the extra weight and I could see it peeking from under the side skirts. ;)
http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v...pserio7aca.jpg

ECONORAM 08-15-2015 12:01 AM

BZP, my jury is still out on wrapping exhaust pipes. I've seen some racers do it, others not. I tried it on a set of 4-2-1 headers on my 84 Jetta, and it seemed to weaken the metal. Broke them at the weld joints. Weakening was also a complaint I read somewhere on the Internet (so it's gotta be true!).
[edit] Found it! http://www.centuryperformance.com/ex...o-not-use.html but this was in reference to headers. I do have fiberglass wrap around my exhaust manifolds to try to keep engine bay heat down. I figure the metal is pretty thick there so I shouldn't have to worry much.

BamZipPow 08-15-2015 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ECONORAM (Post 490150)
BZP, my jury is still out on wrapping exhaust pipes. I've seen some racers do it, others not. I tried it on a set of 4-2-1 headers on my 84 Jetta, and it seemed to weaken the metal. Broke them at the weld joints. Weakening was also a complaint I read somewhere on the Internet (so it's gotta be true!).

I did finally git to measuring the temps in the bed during a hot day drive with Dark Aero in tow. Temps only rose up to 135°F on a 2 hour drive in the middle of the afternoon. My passenger floor board (just right above the catalytic converter) usually sees about 90°F to 100°F temps. ;)

I'm looking at DEI's Titanium (colored) lava rock based exhaust wrap instead of the standard fiberglass stuff. I've already used some on my AC line along with some pipe insulation to keep the AC vents temps as low as I can git them. I also installed a misting system with a 15 gallon water reservoir to mist on the condenser. Right now, my AC vent temps are about 50°F below ambient! ;)

https://amzn.to/2RBAqR2

BamZipPow 11-09-2016 05:36 PM

Testing on closing up the gap between the rear belly pan and the rear tires. I'm attaching it off of the side skirts fer now. The tires will rub off what it needs fer clearance. ;)

http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v...psvbnupcmb.jpg

http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v...psoajipaaq.jpg

http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v...pskhzuoitr.jpg

freebeard 11-09-2016 06:37 PM

That could work. :thumbup:

What's the white button-head fastener you're using?

BamZipPow 11-09-2016 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 526731)
That could work. :thumbup:

What's the white button-head fastener you're using?

Those are the same type of lathe screws I've been using since the beginning of my projects. It's just painted white so my "supporters" won't be showing and I can see the dirt flow analysis. ;)

Merlyn2220 11-09-2016 06:47 PM

Once the tire has properly clearanced the coroplast, you can add wheel spats in front! An easier way to get the clearance is to just jack up the back of the truck and let the axle droop. That should give you a worst case in a minute or so, without the risk of the tire ripping off the whole chunk on a big bump. I plan on doing this with styrofoam once my E150 belly pan is done. Then I'll glass it into the belly pan once I'm sure it will clear.

BamZipPow 11-09-2016 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlyn2220 (Post 526734)
Once the tire has properly clearanced the coroplast, you can add wheel spats in front! An easier way to get the clearance is to just jack up the back of the truck and let the axle droop. That should give you a worst case in a minute or so, without the risk of the tire ripping off the whole chunk on a big bump. I plan on doing this with styrofoam once my E150 belly pan is done. Then I'll glass it into the belly pan once I'm sure it will clear.

Welcome to the forums! :)

I'm not sure putting wheel spats just in front of the tire will make a significant difference in this situation since the gap cover almost encapsulates the wheel. Also, the inside edge rests on the rear belly pan which is connected to the rear axle so the gap cover shouldn't change its orientation significantly (any higher) than where it is now. I may eventually attach the gap cover to the rear belly pan or to the crossbeam instead of the side skirts. ;)

The piece I have installed is just a test piece. I'll be reusing the former diffuser and cutting that up fer the gap cover once my testing is done. ;)


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:38 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com