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Arragonis 05-28-2015 04:38 PM

TDI Tesla ?
 
Don't know if anyone has seen this - Teslas being (apparently) charged by Diesel generators ?

Tesla And Its Customers Find It's Not Easy Being Green - Daily Kanban

I'm kind of reminded of the Top Gear "Hybrid"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCSNCs7bwCw

freebeard 05-28-2015 07:15 PM

I know that Top Gear story is supposed to be funny, but it just makes me sad. :(

If you follow EVTV's work on fast charging (they favor CHAdeMO over Tesla's Supercharger) you find that trying to dump 20-40 kilowatt/hr into a car in 20 minutes is akin to getting hit by a bolt of lightning.

DailyKanban's Ed Niedermeyer attended UofO, where Douglas C. Niedermeyer appeared in the movie Animal House. Related? But the part was played by Mark Metcalf.

UltArc 05-29-2015 02:01 AM

I don't get why people didn't like the Fisker Karma, or on a much more depressing note, the Volt. It seems like the smartest way to go.

jamesqf 05-29-2015 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltArc (Post 481424)
I don't get why people didn't like the Fisker Karma, or on a much more depressing note, the Volt.

'Cause one makes the Tesla look cheap by comparison, and the other's a stodgy 4-door sedan?

Cd 05-29-2015 06:13 AM

No doubt people will use this story to make Tesla look as if their cars have to be powered by diesel generators.
The author had an agenda from the first paragraph.

The jealousy is strong with this one.

Arragonis 05-30-2015 05:37 PM

This is the first paragraph

Quote:

Tesla Motors and its customers are famously proud of their environmentally friendly image, but their anti-carbon and anti-oil sentiments are apparently not as absolute as their public statements and vanity license plates might suggest. In the course of investigating Tesla’s Harris Ranch, CA battery swap station, Daily Kanban found that Tesla’s solution to peak demand for grid-powered Superchargers that are also on-site does not involve stationary battery storage or customer battery-swapping at its only swap station. Instead, the company relies upon backup Superchargers powered by diesel generators. Moreover, several Tesla customers were observed charging from the noisy, carbon-emitting backup generator even when the standard Supercharging station had numerous plugs available. This oddly un-green charging option, foisted on customers as a result of Tesla’s lack of desire to make its battery swap capabilities widely available, in turn raises unanswered questions about the environmental claims Tesla has made about its entire charging network.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 05-31-2015 05:06 PM

Diesel-powered gensets being less regulated for emissions than an over-the-road Diesel engine is another point that might increase the controversy.

freebeard 05-31-2015 05:10 PM

To some, willingness to compromise is weakness; but when it come to something like natural rights, unwillingness to compromise is obstructionism.

I don't care to read the article a 2nd time; are they running biodiesel?

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 05-31-2015 05:19 PM

Considering that an engine powering a stationary application at a constant load has an easier thermal management than the same engine in a car, it would be rather easy to use even waste cooking grease for a further emissions neutralization.

UltArc 05-31-2015 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesqf (Post 481427)
'Cause one makes the Tesla look cheap by comparison, and the other's a stodgy 4-door sedan?

That doesn't answer why the systems are not as successful.

Regardless of someone's bias, or frustration, to write an article- what is the negative to the backup of the engine? Clearly there is less interest in it.

I get Tesla isn't interested, and they use their system- but how is it that a system that has less capabilities is in more demand? Not discussing price (140k vs 60k), how is it the Fisker Karma that can be plugged in or have backup up power be less successful than something that can only use electricity from a wall?

(Personally, I think it was the time this occurred to credit Fiskers failure. Tesla made an "exotic" with the roadster, making it a niche car and not so much an EV, and it then turned into a car after- vs Fisker making an EV that had backup electric but no real niche. Understanding the success and proper release of vehicles is out of my wheel house, but I don't understand why Fisker failed.)

nimblemotors 05-31-2015 11:47 PM

Fisker failed because they ran out of money.
Tesla failed because they ran out of money.
Volt failed because they ran out of money.

Two of these failures were prevented by the US Government,
one of them also by Toyota and having a Billionaire owner.

freebeard 06-01-2015 01:29 AM

nimblemotors -- That's three for three. Which one is which?

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltArc
Not discussing price (140k vs 60k), how is it...?

Maybe you answered your own question. I thought it was because there was a flood in New York City and Newark and 300 unsold cars were lost.

Fisker loses over 300 Karmas in Sandy floods at Port Newark

Tesla made an EV conversion of the Lotus Elise as proof of concept and then engineered a whole new everything.

Arragonis 06-01-2015 04:29 AM

All those cars were insured. Probably easier to claim that than have to sell and support the things.

niky 06-01-2015 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 481378)
I know that Top Gear story is supposed to be funny, but it just makes me sad. :(

If you follow EVTV's work on fast charging (they favor CHAdeMO over Tesla's Supercharger) you find that trying to dump 20-40 kilowatt/hr into a car in 20 minutes is akin to getting hit by a bolt of lightning.

DailyKanban's Ed Niedermeyer attended UofO, where Douglas C. Niedermeyer appeared in the movie Animal House. Related? But the part was played by Mark Metcalf.

A sure way to irritate him is to bring that up. I recall one auto industry official did when answering criticism posed in one of his articles.

Rather childish, actually, and a way to mask the fact that he had no good answer.

-

The generator issue might or might not be a systemic issue. It could just be laziness on the post of attendants, rather than a policy shortcoming.

jamesqf 06-01-2015 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltArc (Post 481670)
That doesn't answer why the systems are not as successful.

It really doesn't have much to do with the systems, per se, but as you said, with the market niches - and, in the case of Fisker, the company management.

Tesla started off by building a high performance sports car, for which there was (and is) a niche market at the price they sold it for. Then they built a high-performance 4-door sedan, for which there is another niche market at their price.

Fisker built a high-performance sedan, for which there wasn't much market. The Volt - which is far from a failure, BTW - sits in almost exactly the same market niche as the Prius & Gen 2 Insight, at a higher price.

niky 06-01-2015 10:10 PM

Tesla's success is a marketing success. They sold not just a product, but an idea.

It's arguable that the Fisker Karma occupies the same niche as the Tesla Model S (albeit at a different price point). The market was there, but Fisker didn't capitalize on it.

Only Elon Musk knows how well off or how dead Tesla would be now if not for his money... but he is undeniably great at promoting it.

jamesqf 06-02-2015 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niky (Post 481785)
Only Elon Musk knows how well off or how dead Tesla would be now if not for his money... but he is undeniably great at promoting it.

There isn't much that will become a success without initial investment, and a certain degree of promotion.


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