Tesla
What do you guys think about how Tesla is doing?
I think it's a good thing and I hope it lasts. I think they need to bring a cheaper car to market though. Their 70,000 price is really not too bad compared to other luxury cars but eventually the luxury car buyers will dry up. I like their battery swap idea at their tesla stations. It's the only way I think consumers will accept electric cars for long distance trips. I don't understand why they don't make their cars more aerodynamic for more range. I guess they have to look cool to appeal to their customers. Anyway, it's good to see one of the start-ups actually doing well. |
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I think that it is a start-up with a good product, not just another gimmick. |
The company is solid and the cars are well built. I've been impressed with the CEO Elon Musk as well... he knows how to get things done. I enjoy seeing him upset the status quo.
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I think the company is solid too, but i would not buy stock. I think it's way inflated, hyped, and over valued and could come crashing down. Yes, all those people who bought stock early and held on made a ton of money. If i invested in silver several years ago, i could've made a ton too. Well silver is volatile, hit an artificially inflated bubble and came crashing down 6 months later.
The Model S is actually more aerodynamic than a prius. .24, .23? |
...and, a LOT of people thought / believed ENRON and the DOT.COMs were solid too.
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Actually in all honesty I have no clue where his delgation would be, but his headquarters is here :) |
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The guy I was talking to who owns a Tesla and is planing to buy a 2nd model S, said that his plan for the very rare occasion that he wants to drive longer then his car's range is to swap vehicles with a friend or neighbor. I think what is going to help them to keep selling cars is to build a smaller car, even if it's not any cheaper, the size of the Tesla S is the biggest complaint that I have heard, the car is huge! |
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Tesla Pays Back U.S. Early as Musk Aims for Affordability - Bloomberg Quote:
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To be honest, I had not realized that Tesla took a loan from the government, but according to the article, the loan returned profit. My dad is a Ford man and he always says that Ford begged, borrowed, and stole (hopefully not that last one) everything they could to avoid bankruptcy and taking money from the government, and that GM and Chrysler are paying back less than they borrowed.
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They plan on developing an electric SUV before the "lower-priced model." I apologize to anyone who read the article, since I just repeated what you already read. Usually, when someone links an article or a YouTube video, I skip ahead to see what others comment about it, because there are other things that I should be doing. |
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Tesla don't really have other revenue to finance their electric cars with, so buyers pay full price for what they get. Going for the higher markets is the only realistic way to do it As the Tesla are decidedly up-market, while the batteries aren't cheap and there's plenty of them, the price is high. Other car manufacturers pay their current losses on the EVs with whatever they make from regular cars. Even then, it's a bargain compared to VW's tiny XL1 ... Quote:
There's simply too few Tesla stores around to make it work. |
Tesla was a breath of fresh air in the auto industry. Sure, some car companies were contemplating an electric car, or dabbling in hybrid cars. But Tesla woke them up a bit.
But Tesla has built their Corvette, they've built their Cadillac... Now they need to bring out a $25,000-$30,000 practical Cavalier-type vehicle. Get your drive technology perfected, and adapt it to different body styles. A small CR-Z type car, a four door affordable family car, perhaps even a basic pickup truck for NAPA delivery operations. They have amazing technology, but I wish they'd stop trying to build a Mercedes and concentrate on every day vehicles. |
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But they approach the market from where the money is. Can't blame them for that. Start with posh sporty cars, at a premium price. Then overpriced SUVs. Don't hold your breath for the everyday-Tesla to come around ... |
Tesla won't be able to sell low end cars. They can sell to the high end because those consumers buy cars for different reasons. Why would a $40,000 Tesla sell differently than a $40,000 Volt?
EV technology has a bit more to go before it's ready for the masses. The main problem is the pricetag. The technology is expensive to develop and produce. Since they don't sell EV's like they do Civic's, the consumer gets the full bill and pays a high upfront cost. Why don't they sell like Civics? Most EV's have a range under what the masses are comfortable with. The current cars on the market don't offer anything over their gasoline competition besides being labeled as environmentally friendly. You may not have to buy gas, but you pay more up front for the technology, and it still costs money to charge. I think I read the payback period for the Nissan Leaf if gas was $4/gallon is 7 years compared to Nissan Versa. Why would the masses switch to EV if gas is cheaper for the first 7 years? Most people finance or lease the car for 5-6 years, not enough to actually benefit from an EV. EV technology will eventually get cheaper, and companies will figure out better ways to sell them. Even though a Telsa is out of reach for most, they are paving the way for other car companies to follow. |
Interesting "concept" to consider -- Induction-coupling of electrical energy *from* the roadway into onboard ultra-capacitors, via "grid" wiring embedded in the roadway!
This could *really* bring EV acceptance down to the general automotive population. However, one has to ask the obvious question: WHO pays for that electrical power and how do they BILL you? My guess is a sudden conversion of all of the current "free" freeways into "pay-as-you-go" TOLLWAYS, where you would either: (a) prepay (rf card, etc.) or (b) the toll booths (at each terminus) would 'read' your car VIN and bill directly to your home electrical company. Thoughts? Comments? ...and, "NO!" I am not related to Elon Musk (ha,ha). |
I understand the cost of batteries and other tech is high. However, I don't buy that as an excuse for car companies to not market multiple options.
If a large corporation such as Toyota were to design hybrid vehicles using the same basic concepts that could be readily adapted between their Tundra, Camry, Sienna, etc lineups, then they would theoretically be able to hire a herd of professional nerds to develop their own battery technology. Why hasn't a big auto corporation bought one of these battery companies? Don't blame the price of the technology, blame decades of "old thinking" in the boardrooms. If Elon Musk were the head honcho at GM the last 15 years, we would be lightyears ahead of where we are now. |
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And it won't hardly require any regular maintenance. Compare an EV with a typical car, and you save roughly $17,000 per 100,000 miles driven. |
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If you want to talk environmentally friendly, that is a different issue. What I am talking about is making EV technology accessible to more people. And as I addressed, that means being cheaper and having more range. BTW, how much power are the Telsa E's solar panels and wind generator able to supply? While it may sound nice to have your car supplied with renewable energy, I am skeptical of how much range the auxiliary charging methods actually provide in the real world. Certainly solar/wind alone is not enough to actually power the car, unlike the Volt which can drive only on the gas generator. |
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Is the Tesla S selling because it's going to save the owners money or because people who DRIVE ev's like them better then gasoline cars and figure it's worth the cost. |
The as yet unasked question is life expectancy of the batteries and the replacement cost. Is there a battery warranty period, like 10 years and 150k miles?
regards Mech |
A very simple thing to find out via a web search... here, I'll do it for you: Model S Facts | Tesla Motors which says
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Are companies like Telsa really beneficial to the EV revolution if they don't produce vehicles for the 99%? EV is such a new technology with it's own problems to overcome, yet Telsa continues to focus on high end rather than a car for everyone. If thats their goal then fine I can accept that. But to hear everyone talk about how Telsa is proving that electric is the future, I just don't see it with their current line up. They don't want everyone to be able to drive EV's. Henry Ford wanted everyone to have a car when he built his company. Thats not what Telsa is doing, they are keeping electric exclusive. Yet taxpayers continue to fund the purchases of these cars, that are out of reach for most of the taxpayers. The Nissan Leaf is pretty much the only EV that can compete with the economy gasoline cars, yet as I illustrated they don't give enough benefits to justify the downsides. |
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Most people I know don't buy new cars, I bought my EV used, my parents bought their EV used, you look at Ebay and you see used factory built EV's that are a few years old so they are selling for the price of a 2-3 year old car! One of the nice things about people who are willing to spend a lot on new things is that they often like to keep buying new things, you want a cheaper Tesla S then wait a few years and buy a used one! |
The revolution is not going to happen over night. But it is happening and at an amazing pace. Tesla has to sell expensive cars because they are doing TONS of R&D. Look at the remarkable difference between the roadster and the model S. The roadster took what ten years to develope and was based on an existing car (a Lotus). The S is new from top to bottom and has been called the best car EVER. IE. better than what others can make with ~100 years of experience.
The price of tech is coming down because Tesla is moving to bulk manufacturing from one-off hand builds. "Common-man" EV's will come with the financing of the weathy buying luxury models. |
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It doesn't hurt that the Tesla S achieves the highest crash test rating possible and that most reviews of the car are very positive... comparing the car favorably to the luxury car benchmarks such as Mercedes and BMW. |
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Originally Posted by Old Tele man http://ecomodder.com/forum/images/em...s/viewpost.gif ...and, a LOT of people thought / believed ENRON and the DOT.COMs were solid too. Quote: Originally Posted by NachtRitter http://ecomodder.com/forum/images/em...s/viewpost.gif You have something that says otherwise about Tesla? ... Quote: Originally Posted by Old Tele man <crickets> Quote:
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What do you see as "too good to be true" here? Too good to be true would be selling the Tesla S for $15K. Or Tesla asking for your down payment when they have nothing but a pretty 3D graphic. Fisker, on the other hand, was "too good to be true" and that was pretty obvious.
So... what are you seeing WRT Tesla that we aren't? |
There should really be a disclaimer attached every time someone says the Tesla S is the safest car ever made. Yes, indeed, it achieved the highest rating ever (*gets really quiet and speaks rather quickly*) of any car tested. To be completely fair, and to bring everything into perspective, high end cars are not crash tested like the normal cars. You won't find crash test data for most Ferrari's, or many of the Tesla S competitors like Audi, BMW, Mercedes, etc. There are many reasons, one being they are really expensive to destroy and test. I won't go into that debate, but I just wanted to be fair.
Another point is how the company and sales will be effected when the state and federal government stop subsidizing the purchases. With all the taxpayer money pouring into their accounts it's pretty easy to be optimistic, but when the price goes up $7500 will that effect sales? Also you have half of the companies sales taking place in one state. The majority taking place on one side of the country. I'm not saying Telsa is bound to fail, or we shouldn't be optimistic, but all the media saying that Tesla will topple GM and Ford is just really hyped up commentary. We haven't seen enough to judge their long term profitability, or to call Telsa the Apple of the car world. BTW that is a pretty crappy comparison because Apple is losing smartphone market share like there is no tomorrow. I wouldn't want Tesla to climb to the top and then jump off a cliff. |
Until *I* personally see actual:
a) battery 'production' costs b) battery 'replacement' costs c) demonstrated battery charge/use 'life-cycle' curves d) promulgated emergency battery-disconnect procedures ...everything about TESLA's "halo" shouts "...too good, to be true..." to me. So, while YMMV, I shall remain seated, at idle, with my doubts, until I see convincing DATA answering *my* concerns. |
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I also agree that anyone saying that Tesla will topple one of the Big Three (err, Big Two?) is getting ahead of themselves... Tesla needs some time before anybody can make that kind of a call. Yes, Tesla is building about the same number of Model S sedans as BMW is building the 6-series sedans (around 22,000 for 2013, according to A Guide to Determining Tesla's Production Numbers), but that is still a tiny fraction compared to what BMW builds overall per year (~1.5 million). |
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OK, I get it... :rolleyes: :thumbup: |
Electric motors are really about THREE TIMES as efficient as a typical ICE.
THAT is why the Tesla Model S is so much better than ICE cars. No magic is involved, just solid engineering. |
Tesla Model S continues to amaze - it is a ground breaking car!
Tesla Model S squares off against Aston Martin Rapide S They only mention how little it costs to drive the Model S, and don't mention that it is far more efficient than a Prius... |
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I've also talked to people who didn't qualify for the tax credit but bought a new EV anyway. They are selling something that people want and it's selling well, that is where the other automakers are failing. |
I'd love to own a Tesla if I had the money. I sat in one in a Tesla store a few months ago and had the salesmen explain all the features to me. It is a very impressive car, electric or not.
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