Tesla Megapack peaking plants up to 730-MWh

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

The fallout from a gigawatt hour of lithium ion batteries sprinting towards net zero.
https://youtu.be/E68F503mM5o

LG just can't catch a break...

This makes one wish they could get a nuclear power plant in their back yard.

Have all the Gigawatt+ storage facilities had fire issues? Seems like whenever we hear about a new one that was built, we hear about a fire later.

[Piotrsko]

Afaik, the only reason they should get hot is rapid charge/discharge with inadequate cooling. Not in use Storage temps go a lot higher and lower. So birdnest or tumbleweed in the ridicously small radiator and they should go offline. That might start a cascade, but just speculation by myself. Always does start in weakest cell however because it's nearest the fire conditions.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Piotrsko

Afaik, the only reason they should get hot is rapid charge/discharge with inadequate cooling. Not in use Storage temps go a lot higher and lower. So birdnest or tumbleweed in the ridicously small radiator and they should go offline. That might start a cascade, but just speculation by myself. Always does start in weakest cell however because it's nearest the fire conditions.

I don't know what LG is using for these batteries, but they had a manufacturing problem causing a bent anode and torn separator in their prismatic cells that lead to fires.

As I've been saying, a system that requires zero defects to prevent a cascading fire is not a well engineered one. Any individual cell failure, or battery bank, should not cause the entire system to burn to the ground.

[Piotrsko]

Agreed that a (battery [module]) failure shouldn't cause a fire, BUT, it has. Any where there is densely packed highly reactive components stuffed into a box.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Piotrsko

Agreed that a (battery [module]) failure shouldn't cause a fire, BUT, it has. Any where there is densely packed highly reactive components stuffed into a box.

My point is the fire is the evidence of poor design. There should be enough separation, containment, or fire suppression of modules that runaway fire is extremely unlikely.

Ideally the system would be resilient against intentional damage, and especially unintentional failure.

[freebeard]

Do any batteries that do not contain Lithium present a fire hazard? Lead-acid? Nickel-iron? Zinc-carbon?

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Do any batteries that do not contain Lithium present a fire hazard? Lead-acid? Nickel-iron? Zinc-carbon?

Even LiFePO4 are much less fire prone. I understand at scale they're more affordable too, so why isn't that chemistry being used in stationary applications?

The answer is probably that LG has their prismatic lines already ramped up, so they make what they have manufacturing capacity to make.

[Piotrsko]

You trade power density for more thermal stability. Lifepo4 is 2/3 power dense FLA is 50%. If you're commuting on the 605, kinda a benefit

Never exploded a FLA, YET.

[Logic]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Even LiFePO4 are much less fire prone. I understand at scale they're more affordable too, so why isn't that chemistry being used in stationary applications?

The answer is probably that LG has their prismatic lines already ramped up, so they make what they have manufacturing capacity to make.

The batteries used are 'Second Life':
ie:
Once the EV battery has reached less than 80% of its capacity the manufacturers are desperatly looking for an alternate use for them so that the whole recycling thing 'recedes in the rearview mirror' to the point where it's no longer their problem...

The LAST thing an EV maker wants now is the General Public becoming aware of/experiencing the HUGE, toxic recycling issue they are currently future-causing..!

When I looked; all these stationary batteries were in fact Second Life, mostly from EVs.
Hence the completely inappropriate chemistry AND the increased risk of faulty cells.

[Logic]

China has banned EV battery fires:
https://www.google.com/search?q=chin...t=gws-wiz-serp

These guys are renown for trying to save 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 1 cents on everything!
But I think the prospect of "Life in a Chinese gulag' is very likely to deter this 'genetic defect', resulting in below spec batteries ending up being quietly dumped in the sea or something instead.