VW ID.4 Revealed - Reservations Open

[JSH]

I just watched the live reveal for the VW ID.4. The Highlights:

On sale next year

Same size as a Tiguan

Base model has 82 kWh battery, 200 hp, and RWD for $39,995
AWD follows later in 2021 with 300 hp for $43,695

Range estimated at 250 miles

DC fast charging 5% to 80% in 38 minutes
Charges in 7 1/2 hours on Level 2
Owners get 3 years of free changing w/ Electrify America

First year production will come from Germany before the TN plant starts production in 2022. US build vehicles will be about $5K cheaper.

[Hersbird]

I think it looks, is speced, and priced to be a winner. In theory the US built AWD will be $39,000 and have the $7500 credit available. It may not be as good as a $50,000 model Y AWD, but that's quite a bit less. It also looks better than the Mach E.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

I think it looks, is speced, and priced to be a winner. In theory the US built AWD will be $39,000 and have the $7500 credit available. It may not be as good as a $50,000 model Y AWD, but that's quite a bit less. It also looks better than the Mach E.

Here in Oregon the RWD version would be $25,000 after tax credits and rebates. That would make it the same price as a base model FWD Tiguan. Add in $6,000 in fuel savings and another $2 - $3K in maintenance savings over 10 years and I can't make a case for buying the gas Tiguan.

The Tesla Y is too expensive for me to consider and it is a Tesla so that is a no-go. (Build quality, interior, Musk). The Mach-E is interesting but $10K more.

250 miles of range and 200 hp is more than enough for me.

I'm not happy with the way options are configured but that might change with US production. Power seats with leather coverings are part of a $4500 option package with nothing else of any value to me. The colors are really boring to: Black, Grey, Silver, White, Blue. AWD models aren't available in blue.

[freebeard]

"The (vinyl wrap base) colors are really boring to[sic]:

$25K is Tesla's target for their next model (FUV$x2).

[JSH]

Originally Posted by freebeard

"The (vinyl wrap base) colors are really boring to[sic]:

$25K is Tesla's target for their next model (FUV$x2).

Yup. 3 years from now. Along with the Semi, Roadster, Cybertruck, FSD, and robo-taxi Teslas that make money for their owners.

It isn't the first time he said Tesla would make a $25,000 car in 3 years:

This is from 2018:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MevK...arquesBrownlee

[Hersbird]

FWD works good in the northern states, but RWD is just a PITA, I don't care how good your traction and stability programs are. So I only compare prices of the AWD versions if there isn't a FWD version. Basically I'd prefer a FWD Tiguan over a RWD ID4, plus we don't get a state incentive. If the Rav4 prime was ramped up to exceed demand that may be the all around best. 80% of the time, maybe more battery only, and when you need a longer trip it's ready to do that without drama as well.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

FWD works good in the northern states, but RWD is just a PITA, I don't care how good your traction and stability programs are.

Having grown up in Michigan driving RWD and FWD vehicles I respectfully disagree. A front engine / FWD car has an advantage accelerating on straight and flat roads because the typical FWD car has 60 % of the weight over the front wheels while a front engine / RWD car has 50% or less weight over the rear wheels. With an EV the weight is much more likely to be 50 / 50 or even rear biased eliminating the traction advantage for FWD vehicles.

If you throw hills into the mix FWD is a disadvantage because going up hills shifts weight away from the drive wheels. I’ve had to back up hills in snow with FWD cars due to this.

Once curves get thrown into the mix I hate FWD cars and the way they slide into the oncoming lane if the front wheels break traction. Give me rear wheel slides any day over losing steering when the front wheels spin.

Originally Posted by Hersbird

So I only compare prices of the AWD versions if there isn't a FWD version. Basically I'd prefer a FWD Tiguan over a RWD ID4, plus we don't get a state incentive. If the Rav4 prime was ramped up to exceed demand that may be the all around best. 80% of the time, maybe more battery only, and when you need a longer trip it's ready to do that without drama as well.

The RAV4 Prime is in contention for me as well. It will depend where we are in life in 4 years when it comes time to replace our VW Sportwagen.

[freebeard]

With an EV the weight is much more likely to be 50 / 50 or even rear biased eliminating the traction advantage for FWD vehicles.

If you throw hills into the mix FWD is a disadvantage because going up hills shifts weight away from the drive wheels. I’ve had to back up hills in snow with FWD cars due to this.

Once curves get thrown into the mix I hate FWD cars and the way they slide into the oncoming lane if the front wheels break traction. Give me rear wheel slides any day over losing steering when the front wheels spin.

Thanks. My biases confirmed better than I would've done.

My preference is rear engine/rear drive, provided the terminal oversteer is dialed down. Never had a problem with 145s on the front, except downhill in the mountains where the brakes overpower the tires. With 165-50s on the front I've spun it twice on freeway onramps. Porsches have their problems on offramps, or so I hear.

[Piotrsko]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Porsches have their problems on offramps, or so I hear.

Apparently so do subie WRX's and a scad of other hotrods.

[Hersbird]

Well I've been a Montana driver for 36 years now and have to disagree about the RWD. I've tried to convince myself and even others like you over the years that a RWD can be fine but it just doesn't work out that way in real life. There is something about the front tires digging their path vs the rear following the path and pushing the front tires through the snow, that makes the fwd better. There is just more stability in pulling the weight, vs pushing it as well. Probably why they tie the dogs up in front of the sleds rather than behind it.

They won't make the RWD versions of any RWD car rear weight biased because Corvair. So many people will die, it's just not a predictable handling design.

PS edit, why I really came here was to say the first year ID4 sold out in just a few hours so that's a good sign.