Is there a better use for first gear?
 

Ok, so here is the scenario...

My clam to fame in town is my car. I'm known for having one of the clunkiest cars in Stillwater, not that thats any major feat as it is one of the few American cars in town. Teens in my town are generally rich s.o.b.'s and driving something made by hard working Americans would be below them. During the school year I often found myself parking between a Honda S2000 and an Audi TT. Who the #%^& buys their child an S2000??

Ok, I'm finished with my rant now. Moving on...

My friend Sam's parents just bought a 2010 Prius *w00t* to replace their aging Saturn SC and accordingly to Sam [to be taken with several large grains of salt] the SC is mine if I want it. I don't really believe anyone is really so nice as to give a car like that to someone they've known for a year, but I suppose it is possible. They are stupidly rich, and they were present when the inside of my car door fell off (and thus, my Taurus became a long running dinner joke), so maybe they just feel like being nice to a random person.

Anyway, the particular Saturn in question has about 130k on the clock and looks to be in great shape (gotta love all those plastic bits!), but first gear is a little bit "stupid" according to Sam. You gotta show the car some love to get it into first. She thinks it is "going out" but it could just be a bad shift linkage, since S-Series manuals have a habit of lasting biblically long times (I used to work with a woman who has driven the same SC2 manual since 1992... 230k miles).

If I do end up with the car, and if first gear has gone wrong, would it be possible to repurpose the gear? I don't know much about the internals of the Saturn MP transmission (IDK if it is the MP2 or MP3 tranny) other than fifth gear is easy to get to for gear swaps. If there is someone here who knows more than I, I would like to know if it would even be remotely possible to drive first gear via an electric motor.

A. I'm writing this at nearly 3 AM, so it probably sounds very odd
B. This is of course just an idea rattling around in my gray matter
so let the comments fly!

Just start in 2nd gear, :P

I've found that generation of GM cars to have syncro issues. You could get the tranny a syncro kit, or just make sure you take your time putting it in gear, or do your own rev-matching? I'm sure you can make it work!

-Steve

I know there are work-arounds for the first gear problem. I think it is an SC2 and therefore has the more powerful engine, so I can start in second like SVOboy said. Come to think of it, thats what Sam suggested.
Also, rev matching should be easy, like Stevey said, because it actually has a tachometer.

I just thought it would be useful to drive first with an electric motor because I will be doing a ton of city driving next fall.
Hmm I wonder if the rear axle of an AWD Vue would fit an S-Series *forms evil hybrid plans*

car-part.com has a tranny for that car for $275 that is close by.

Wow... Car-part.com has three transmissions close by!

Assuming its a manual gearbox, there is a little trick which may work:

From neutral with the clutch down, shift into second then directly into first. Do not let the clutch up until in first gear.

Its works in my little Punto with a damaged/worn synchro on first.

If its an auto - ignore this post!

You can do the 2nd-1st shift, which often works. Or, you can just skip first. It's pointless to use first in just about all Saturns, by my experience. You can take off in 2nd the same way I did in my Honda Civic or Ford Escort in 1st. I dunno why, but it seems like that gear is a waste of weight, honestly. Maybe it's for pulling stuff? LOL.

Dude - Never underestimate the power of human kindness. I've been given things by people I've NEVER met, or only met once. Check my thread titled "Find!" for a perfect example. (Just use the search for the thread title.)

I never thought of using the downshift syncros. Sounds like a great idea, Vinny.

And as for Christ's comment on first gear in S-Series'...
Maybe it is just a leftover from the dark days of throttle-body injection. Those old TBI single cam engines were among the most gutless the world has ever seen. On the flip-side, the MPFI dual cam engines can chirp the tires nice and loudly :P

If you are interested in electric drive, I wouldnt bother with 1st gear at all. Just drive the rear wheels or a 5th wheel as a separate system up to the speed you would use 2nd in and go.

For ALL things Saturn S series, go here,

Saturn S-Series - SaturnFans Forums

It's actually my next bookmark after this site. A wealth of information.

If you always start in second gear you will wear the clutch out faster. You also run the risk of glazing the clutch and causing chatter.

First gear is not a useless gear at all. Put 800lbs of load in the car and it becomes a necessity. Starting uphill, pulling out into traffic etc first gear is needed. Part of the reason that a saturn can start in second gear is low end torque and lightweight 2350lbs. 114lbs peak at 2400rpms for 1.9l car thats very low rpm.


Also it may not be a tranny issue at all. Its very possible that the clutch master cylinder or transmission slave cylinder is failing and causing the clutch to not be fully disengaged. From what I've read you replace both together anyway. It could also be a lousy shift cable.

IMO, the stock shifter cable of a Saturn S car is awful. They're notchy, spongy, indirect feeling, and somewhat delicate. Bang a shift too hard will move the cables slightly and make it stiff to shift. Otherwise there fine cars.

I'm old and when I was young I had a '46 dodge pickup with 4 speed transmission and no synchros. All shifting was done by double clutching and I still do that with transmissions that are hard shifting.

I did some experiments on this at uni and we found starting in second could save the box AND clutch on everything except hill starts. a 12-1400rpm get-a-way from stand still could be down as quickly in our three test (1.0l Pug 106, 2L mondeo sedan, 3.2 V6 Opel Omega) vehichles in second as it could in first AND there was no extra gear change to second required as you would if you'd set off in first(reducing short exposure c/glaze risk)

Ive got to the point where i go N-2nd-1st every time before pulling away. No crunching so far *touches wood*. Your stuffed if the sychro on 2nd goes too though.


You want gutless?... try driving a 1.1L punto(all of 54bhp) filled to the windows, towing an (un-braked) trailer weighing at least 400kg+the 250kg trailer itself. Thats gutless...

... You want truly gutless? I drove an 800cc Smart ForTwo Diesel with the turbo blown on a 400 series highway (the big highways around here, 4-8 lane depending on where you are).

Worse acceleration then a loaded transport truck. I basically just matted it at all times. It slowed to 30 MPH up hills. Stock is 40 HP. I'd estimate without the turbo i was driving with somewhere around 15 HP. Took a lot of intestinal fortitude to drive it to the dealer to get it fixed!

didn't think you guys were getting the diesel??

We used to get it. For 2005-2006 we only got the diesel. For 2008-2009 we only got the 70 hp 1.0 Mitsu engine.

I wish they'd bring over the new 45 HP diesel. I'd buy one like this *snaps*.

Ladies and gentlemen, I am know the proud owner of a very red Saturn SC1 5-speed *w00t* As it turns out, there isn't a thing wrong with the transmission. Sam just didn't know that first gear on MP2/3 transmissions is locked out unless you have the clutch depressed absolutely as far as it will go. My friend's SL2 has the same lockout on it.

Now I've got to master the Stick ;-)

You'll pick it up fast, Don't worry. Just don't drive during rush-hour downtown till your confidence is there. :thumbup:

I was practicing hill starts in my back yard. I managed to only make a few large potholes in the gravel. Then my 14 year old brother climbed behind the wheel and totally put me to shame... He killed it just once, and to the best of my knolage, he's never driven a car before.

Fun times all around :-)

Ok, you got me beat.


Hill starts are annoying, even more so in reverse.

Yeah, first gear isn't always syncroed. That could be the reason for the lockout, kind of like reverse. Even if it has a syncro for first it's usually spaced out from second for starting. Meaning downshifting is worthless because the whole vehicle will jerk around crazily.

Congratulations on the new car.

Thanks guys!

I'm officially in love with stick shifts. They are so much more fun and I feel much more connected to the car, and the suicide door is pretty much the coolest feature ever. It totally makes up for the poor excuse for a radio that Saturn installed.

If your driving an automatic, your not driving, your just pointing the car!

:thumbup:

Enjoy!