04-27-2010, 10:30 PM
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
EcoModding Lurker
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 3
Thanks: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
some honda autos get better mileage than manuals?
I just noticed the website specs on the Honda Fit are 1mpg higher on the auto transmission than manual, and the Civic Sedan auto does 1mpg lower in the city, but higher on the highway compared to manual.
(EDIT: links to Honda spec pages removed cuz I is uber n00b)
Porque?
This seems to go against the conventional wisdom that manuals are more efficient. Is this mathematical fudgery or some new technology?
Thanks,
Wagmore
|
|
|
|
 Today
|
|
|
|
Other popular topics in this forum...
|
|
|
|
|
04-27-2010, 10:42 PM
|
#2 (permalink)
|
|
EcoModding Apprentice
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Posts: 201
Thanks: 54
Thanked 30 Times in 18 Posts
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by wagmore
I just noticed the website specs on the Honda Fit are 1mpg higher on the auto transmission than manual, and the Civic Sedan auto does 1mpg lower in the city, but higher on the highway compared to manual.
(EDIT: links to Honda spec pages removed cuz I is uber n00b)
Porque?
This seems to go against the conventional wisdom that manuals are more efficient. Is this mathematical fudgery or some new technology?
Thanks,
Wagmore
|
Auto gearboxes have improved significantly...and also, manual gearboxes are often geared a little different (to be "sporty"). So on the EPA cycle, the autos are often rated equal to or better than the manual for the same car.
An aggressive hypermiler will probably do better with a manual than an auto, but I think the EPA cycle plays to the averages. |
|
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to jkp1187 For This Useful Post:
|
|
|
04-28-2010, 03:11 AM
|
#3 (permalink)
|
|
aero guerrilla
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 3,699
Thanks: 1,273
Thanked 730 Times in 463 Posts
|
Many new autos, next to 'eco' and 'sport' modes, also have a 'manual' mode, allowing the driver to pick gears. I'd like to see a test between 'normal', 'eco' and 'manual' modes.
__________________
e·co·mod·ding: the art of turning vehicles into what they should be
What matters is where you're going, not how fast.
"... we humans tend to screw up everything that's good enough as it is...or everything that we're attracted to, we love to go and defile it." - Chris Cornell
[Old] Piwoslaw's Peugeot 307sw modding thread
|
|
|
|
|
04-29-2010, 06:58 PM
|
#4 (permalink)
|
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Victoria , Australia.
Posts: 499
Thanks: 20
Thanked 46 Times in 33 Posts
|
Wagmoe, Welcome to the place as well.
Cheers , Peter.
|
|
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Peter7307 For This Useful Post:
|
|
|
04-29-2010, 09:43 PM
|
#5 (permalink)
|
|
...beats walking...
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: .
Posts: 6,190
Thanks: 179
Thanked 1,525 Times in 1,126 Posts
|
...I'd like to see a true 6-speed mechanical gear box that automatically "shifted" between gears using hydraulics and simultaneously used a ferro-fluid (electromagnetic) "clutch"--both under computer control, ie: an automatic gear box!
...no 'planetary' sun gears or 'clutching' "bands" for me!
...I want solid "metal-on-metal" gears and 100% solid electro-fluid-mechanical "torque" lockup!
P.S.--Corvette already uses ferro-fluid viscus coupling for variable, while-driving, control of shock absorber response.
|
|
|
|
|
04-30-2010, 06:01 PM
|
#6 (permalink)
|
|
EcoModding Lurker
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 3
Thanks: 3
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkp1187
Auto gearboxes have improved significantly...and also, manual gearboxes are often geared a little different (to be "sporty"). So on the EPA cycle, the autos are often rated equal to or better than the manual for the same car.
An aggressive hypermiler will probably do better with a manual than an auto, but I think the EPA cycle plays to the averages.
|
Thanks for the input!
Looking at all the big car manufacturers' websites these days, I'm amazed how few new models can even claim to beat the mileage of my fifteen-year-old Passat.
We like our luxury and performance now, but we'll pay for it later.
Wagmore  |
|
|
|
|
04-30-2010, 06:28 PM
|
#7 (permalink)
|
|
Basjoos Wannabe
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 870
Thanks: 174
Thanked 49 Times in 32 Posts
|
I agree with jpk1187 about the gearing. If the gearing in the autos and the manuals were the same, the manuals would win out. that being said, automatics have come a long way from the days when a 4 speed automatic was something to be shocked at.
__________________
 RIP Maxima 1997-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf
I think you missed the point I was trying to make, which is that it's not rational to do either speed or fuel economy mods for economic reasons. You do it as a form of recreation, for the fun and for the challenge.
|
|
|
|
|
|
05-01-2010, 02:08 AM
|
#8 (permalink)
|
|
Pishtaco
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 1,485
Thanks: 56
Thanked 286 Times in 181 Posts
|
If you're interested in achieving highest mpg, get the manual. I'd amend jpk1187's statement to say an aggressive hypermiler will always do better with a manual than an auto. Unless/until they invent an auto that locks up in all gears, allows EOC, is geared better for highway cruising than the equivalent manual, is equally reliable, and doesn't have a premium price tag.
__________________
Darrell
Boycotting Exxon since 1989, BP since 2010
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac? George Carlin
Mean Green Toaster Machine
49.5 mpg avg over 53,000 miles. 176% of '08 EPA
Best flat drive 94.5 mpg for 10.1 mi
Longest tank 1033 km (642 mi) on 10.56 gal = 60.8 mpg
Last edited by SentraSE-R; 05-01-2010 at 02:19 AM..
|
|
|
|
|
05-01-2010, 11:08 AM
|
#9 (permalink)
|
|
Basjoos Wannabe
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 870
Thanks: 174
Thanked 49 Times in 32 Posts
|
Something I've always wondered about is why couldn't a manual clutch be fitted to an automatic transmission? You'd have to use the clutch as in a manual car, but the shifts would be automatic and you could take advantage of the better ratios. What energy losses are there in the auto other than having to pump the fluid?
__________________
RIP Maxima 1997-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf
I think you missed the point I was trying to make, which is that it's not rational to do either speed or fuel economy mods for economic reasons. You do it as a form of recreation, for the fun and for the challenge.
|
|
|
|
|
|
05-01-2010, 12:39 PM
|
#10 (permalink)
|
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: 18603, USA
Posts: 759
Thanks: 221
Thanked 60 Times in 45 Posts
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Tele man
...I'd like to see a true 6-speed mechanical gear box that automatically "shifted" between gears using hydraulics and simultaneously used a ferro-fluid (electromagnetic) "clutch"--both under computer control, ie: an automatic gear box!
...no 'planetary' sun gears or 'clutching' "bands" for me!
...I want solid "metal-on-metal" gears and 100% solid electro-fluid-mechanical "torque" lockup!
P.S.--Corvette already uses ferro-fluid viscus coupling for variable, while-driving, control of shock absorber response.
|
That's what the Ford PowerShift 6 speed automatic is. It's an electronically clutched and shifted 6 speed dual-clutch manual gearbox. No Torque Converter, no ATF - just gears.
|
|
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Nevyn For This Useful Post:
|
|
|
