Top 5 cheap cars to start with?
 

This might be a candidate for a sticky thread.

I am thinking about purchasing a used car in search of fuel savings. This will be to slightly modify to the point of saving money, not spending more than I save. I also figure it will be cheaper than building a project from scratch.

1) Daily driver for commuting to work so two seaters or econo-boxes ok.

2) Manual trans.

3) Budget. Cheap. $3000 range. No need to get a 5 year car payment if I am looking to save money.

4) Runs on gas. Fuel up anywhere.

5) Cheap and easy to maintain. I can save money by fixing it myself.

What are the top 5 choices for a noobie Eco-Modder?

So far, I have heard Civic VX and HX. I see other trims are more available. What makes these two so different from the LX and CX? Engine size or stuff laymen don't know about?

I've seen VX's sell on Ebay for $5,000+ and mine is valued by the insurance company at $5,500, I bought mine 5 years ago for $1,100 when they were at the bottom of their value, my parents just bought one that is rusty with some minor issues for $2,800 tho, so they can be found for your budget, just make sure you have cash on hand so you can act quickly!

I would go for a Toyota Corrola if you want something that is cheap to buy and cheap to maintain.
The last year of the Geo Metro was 2000, so they are all getting old and rusty.

You can get a first gen Toyota Prius for $3,000, but you need to learn how to spot their quirks and issues on a test drive or you will end up buying a money pit.

Might worth to not disconsider an early Chevy Aveo, if you can find one...

Ford escort zx2
decently common with a manual
34mpg driving it hard
can be had for under 1500

While that budget is decent to work with, you will be hard pressed to find a VX, HF, or HX in that price range. Good on you if you do, but baring that miracle, I'd say (these change in order depending on how rusty cars in your area get, as that will kill most of them before mechanical failure will):

1. '88-91 Civic - dirt cheap, easy to fix, parts are cheap, if they die then you did something wrong (usually). Any model but an Si as they have different gearing in the transaxle that will hurt highway MPGs.

1.5 '92-'95 Civic - see above, but they tend to have even more issues with rust than the earlier ones, so could be harder to find, and more money if you find a nice one.


2. First gen Insight with a dead traction battery. These cars are insanely overbuilt, and because most people don't get that they can function without the traction battery working, they can be in your price range on occasion. All aluminum and fiberglass construction so no need to worry about rust. It'd be like hitting the lottery if you got one at that price, but if you can get a 5 speed one that cheap TAKE IT.

3. '96-'02 Saturn S series. Single cam motor of whatever model you pick. Again, dirt cheap and easy to fix.

4. '91-'00 Tercel. Dirt cheap, easy to fix, and they had an issue with valve seals so if they have never been replaced the car will smoke like a wet campfire when you start it cold, but who cares? It just makes them cheaper to buy as the seller probably thinks it's on it's last legs!

5. '95- '00 Metro or clone with a 1.0L. Xfi model if you can find one, but those are in the VX/HF/HX territory of pricing unless you luck out.


As for what makes a VX or HX different? They utilize lean burn fuel injection systems and are factory lightweight vehicles.

Edit: I wanted to add the ZX2 but I figured I had cheated enough with the 1.5 add on, so they didn't make the cut ha ha

So, what about a Ford Aspire as an alternative to the ZX2?

aspire aswell there just not to common around my parts so there forgotten

Yup those work too, but not very common anymore, they were never really great sellers even when they were new. Festiva as well, there are lots of choices to be sure. With my list at least I just tried to stick with the most common, I see a LOT of cars every week, and the more of something I see in the land of wholesale, the cheaper and easier it will be to the end user. Except for really cheap first gen Insights - those are all mine and you can't have one!! ha ha. :snail:

Those exist :confused: all the cheap 1s i find are autos with 300k miles on em

Any random Kia might be had for cheap, and they're actually good.

Yup, generally if you find a cheap one it's a CVT. The differences between a CVT and a 5 speed model make it so it's not worth trying to convert a CVT into a stick car. They are still good for an automatic car, but they are a different animal from a 5 speed one.

I would add late 90's Nissan Sentra ('96-'99?) with the base engine they get good mileage. And they are cheap, simple cars.

Sentras are dirt cheap and decent for the money. Just make sure you check for worn out CV joints. Every single one I have ever had has needed CVs, but the good news is the axles are cheap to replace.

Ah, -1 on that one... I've seen my old neighbor 3 houses on go raving mad over his Kia, he bought it new with a 3 year warranty and spent a lot of time getting fixed for all kinds of problems during that warranty - all paid for, of course - but thoroughly eroded his faith in the car, but he could not sell it for more than a third of the sticker price - less than 3 years old!

I did rent a Kia Shuma to tour the Azores island of Flores. The car was mediocre, to put it nicely. Nearly left me stranded because it could not climb a hill in reverse. Had to roll it down an ever steeper grading road to a rocky beach to find a turning point; finally turned it around in a ditchlike alley, covering the inside with mud in the process by a spinning wheel (we had the windows open... bad mistake!)

I want a Kia for my hearse, I bet that protects me from dying ;)

The FIVE attributes for a cheap FE vehicle:

1. Small CID engine.
2. Diesel instead of gasoline engine.
3. Light weight vehicle.
4. Aerodynamic vehicle.
5. Realistic speed/load expectations.

I'd agree except Diesel typically means high resale and therefore no longer cheap...

Also,
6. Reliable.

If you are constantly spending money fixing it, it is no longer a cheap car. For that reason, old Kias and Hyundais are out.

I poked around under the hook on a friend Kia, replacing belts, changing a few light bulbs, changing filters and the car was hell to work on.

VX and HX seem to be hard to find, but I am seeing a few of the older Hybrids...


School me on hybrids. Hard to work on? failure rate? Expensive to fix?

Just found 2 last gen 5 speed escort on hartford craigslist for 1000$ look good on first view, mine gets 41 easily ,

Ford Escort? Do they still have the head gasket leaking problem in the later generations?

I'm looking for max bang for buck with the possibility of light mods to increase mpg.

+1 for reliability. A newer Focus may give me slightly better FE than my '90 CX, but I know that unless the CX is currently on fire it will always start ha ha. In an under $3000 car you want as simple as possible while still being fuel injected IMO.

As for hybrids, it depends on what you are looking for. A 2000-2006 Insight will function without a working battery pack. A similar Prius will not. I don't know about early Civic hybrids etc, but I am sure someone else here will.

And as for the Escorts, I think they all had the head gasket issue. The early Focuses shared the same engine for the first few years until they went to the Z-Tec. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

It sounds quite odd to me that you've experienced problems with a Kia. At least the ones I've seen in Brazil and Uruguay were not so bad altough often the owners abused them a little. Well, maybe the ones I've seen didn't have that problem with hills due to a lower differential ratio which is usual back here...

Nowadays Kia shares their platforms with Hyundai and score well in customer reviews.
Older Kias that's another story. I was interested in the Shuma and delighted I could rent one (in 2004). There was al lot more wrong with it than just the reverse gear of course.
As a rental it might have fallen short on TLC, but I can see through that.
I drove a 60 hp '86 VW Golf Diesel at the time, my standards were not that high.

We do have a Hyundai I10 (AKA Kia Picanto) that has had 2 power steering failures under warranty, but the dealer (who sold hundreds of them) claims ours is the only one with that problem. All replaced under warranty, with free courtesy car. No cost whatsoever (save regular service and gas) on the I10 so far; quite happy with it esp. since we won it in a lottery!

That was a problem with all the early 80's 1.6 models,till around 84 or so , the 1.9 was pretty good if you changed the anti freeze every 3 yrs or so , the 2.0's have no big problems , except I've heard the ZX2 had some issues, but the plain jane sedans are pretty good and cheap to boot. 1000 for a really nice looking one . mine was a find as it was a west coast car with fresh paint and zero body rust, for 1100, have 194 k now and running fine, all the accessorys eventually give trouble, except the AC so far, but fun to drive and averaging over 40 mpg on 75% highway running,

Festivas were Kias and they were nice, simple, sturdy units.

That particular Kia (Pride) was a Mazda 121 in its earlier life.
I'd rather compare the Festiva to the Mazda than that Kia, not that the Prides were bad or such - only when Kia started designing their own cars did it go bad. For a while.

A late 90s tercel with stick. would be my answer. Bullet proof!
Then a mid 90s 4cyl 5 spd maxima. Bomb proof.
then early 90s models honda 5 spd.
Then metros / swifts
Then I will say lastly probes and other fords /mazdas with 4 cyl. 5 spd.
early - mid 90s escorts /323 etc were power houses but with oversized tires can pull down fair mpg.
I wouldnt recomend KIAs except for people versed in complex auto electric and valvetrain repairs. My sephia always has something wrong but parts are dirt cheap and the darn thing still never completely left me stranded.
I also beat the snot out of it... did I mention parts are cheap?? theres ya sign.

I had a friend with a 1997 Kia Sportage whose dad constantly said that Kia was supposed to make them for Ford, who backed out, so Kia sold them under their own label, and when those were successful, Mazda made the Tribute and then Ford had the Escápe.

You speak human? :)

According to the dad, Kia made the Sportage better because it was supposed to be a Ford, so the same might apply to the Aspire.

There's a '98 Civic for sale in Allentown, asking price $1550. Needs brake line for front wheels, it says. But it also specifies 30mpg combined, I know you could beat that.

When I was looking earlier this year, I was surprised to find Toyota Echos in that price range (around 2k). Seems they were forgotten due to the name change (tercel-echo-yaris). Then I found my vx for 1300, no contest. Whatever you get, if you want a deal, have cash in hand, and be ready to drive at a moments notice.

early 80s VW Rabbit?

Please I beg of you don't get a geo metro ,unless you like the snickers.My friend used to have 3 of those things ,the reason he got to three was .Something would go wrong it was cheaper to buy another car with a good part then it was to buy the part or close to it. Those things are junk the doors are tin can thin. I watched my friend get stuck in a snodrift going down the road,pathetic... His horn cover was a different color and we said it was the tear collector because of the shame in driving said geo. If you really hate life and want everyone to laugh at you,buy a geo aka sham-o,

1. Toyota Echo. They are ugly as sin so nobody wants them. And dead reliable IF service records are available. I have heard of a few 1NZ-FE motors packing it in early when oil change intervals have been abused even slightly. Canada got the Echo Hatchback starting in 2004 (if I remember correctly). I bought one in 2004 brand new and it was a fun car and less ugly.

2. Toyota Corolla (2003-2008). Simple cars that ride and feel 100X better than same year Civics. Excellent highway mileage with a 5-speed.

Pontiac Fiero. I had a first year 2m4, 4 speed and got 30mpg easily. Now days they ARE cheap, fairly easy to work on, many parts available including Aero kits.

i agree with accesorys giving trouble, but my zx2 was manual everything except locks and the alarm no longer works nor does the A/C. one thing to add about escorts is even though the sedan and zx2 both had 2.0l motors they were different motors, meaning motor issues wouldnt be directly related

Toyota Echo manual trans. Very ugly, usually very cheap, and Im getting sub 50 mpg with mods. (my instrumentation is currently off) You can get 40's all day if you even make an attempt at driving economically. They're oddly fun to drive and have a lot of interior space too.

^^^^Best user name yet.

First Gen Focus. The SOHC get the best MPG but they tend to drop valves. It's a domestic so you can find the 2000-2004 models fairly cheap. I've seen upper trim ZX3s going for $2-$3k.

Them's fightin' words!

Also some of them words are demonstrably untrue.

Also! I suspect most people around here don't give a rat's behind what other people think of their cars.

When I bought this car, I wanted to dive into the fuel economy champion pool (non-hybrid end). It was Metro-clone or VX for me. (VX's had mostly rusted away; none to be found.)

I've only ever bought used cars, and of the 20+ I've owned, my two Fireflies (Metros) -- first '97, current '98 -- have been the most reliable cars of the herd. And yes, I was just as surprised as you no doubt are. Because, yes, they are lightly built and feel flimsy. But they're well engineered and will last beyond 300k kms with proper care. Rust will get 'em before mechanical gremlins.

Like any old, cheap car, it's only as good as the care it received up until it came into your life!

Anyone who claims that the 2.0 SPI SOHC Ford engine has no problems clearly has no idea what they are talking about. Those things dropped valve seats like crazy.