Toyota tundra mods.
 

My painting contractor father is going to be upgrading hs 2002 toyota tundra sr5 4.7L 2WD access cab truck. Hes going to install a bed slide and ladder racks and other stuff for utitlity but i showed him some information on increasing efficiency and he was very interested. I dont know about the engine or gearing but i believe some aero mods should be pretty cost effective. The utility stuff will add some weight.

What is the estimated mpg saving i would get for doing the following.

He might replace the leer 122 hi cap on it with a utility cap. The leer hi cap slopes up 1 foot higher than the cab.

I might lower the truck a couple of inches if i get a good deal on a kit.

Rim covers.

rear wheelwell fairing.

air dam and side skirt

partial or full bellypan.

grille blocking

cap/cab gap filling.

Removing 3 or 4 long extension ladders from the racks. (Depending on the miles between jobs and the Cd it might not be worth the effort to take them off and put back on sometimes.)


What are the advantages of the $150 mpg gauge vs the $50 kind?

Welcome to the site Miket.

Its very hard to say what those mods would all do. It really depends on how the vehicle is driven and under what circumstances. There are just too many variables to know for sure, but you could guess at a couple of % per mod.

The difference between the scangauge and most other things is that the scangauge is a very well developed tool that has been around for years. The others haven't been out quite as long and generally don't have as many features. You'd have to compare them each individually.

I dont need to know the exact difference each mod will do on the tundra, i just want to know where i should spend my money and time to save gas.

I'll try and get some information from him on his highway/city ratio and overall mileage.

I've heard the mpguino is more accurate because it measures the injectors and not the maf. How much of a difference is there in accuracy?Besides MPG how is the scanguage usefull?? I can get my check engine light codes read for free at autozone. I can see the engine temperature and battery voltage and rpms on the dash already. Is the mpguino readable at night?

I've installed accessories that required me to run a small wire through the firewall to the dash before. I've never tapped into the injector wires or any sensor but how much time could it take? Id save $100.

In general the mpguino will be more accurate since it does measure injector pulse width. You don't need to run wires through the fire wall, just tap into them near the ECU in the cabin.

If your driving is consistent, the scangauge can become fairly accurate (+/- less than 1 mpg). However, the scangauge also reads OBDII codes as well as almost every sensor on your engine. This makes it great for learning how to drive more efficiently. The mpg gauge is only one feature and IMO isn't the most important thing.

As for where to start with the mods, I'd always start with the cheapest stuff! Thats airing up the tires, removing the ladders, grill block, and probably belly pan.

Besides mpg, tach, odom and gas pedal positon what does one need to know to learn to drive efficiently? What things is the mpguino missing?

I was thinking about belly pans. Where does the air leaving the engine go? Is there anything under the vehicle that needs cooling?

I would make the pan easy to install and remove for maintenance. I think id put tall wedge shapes on top of the pan around where frame pieces are so that when lifting the pan up it self aligns into position.

Given the different heights of things under there id install some brackets on the higher places to screw to rather than have screws of many different lengths. Alternatively i have an idea of attaching it with a cable instead of screws but im not sure if its practical. I could run a cable underneath making loops around or through various parts of the frame and go up into the engine bay. The pan would have cable clips so i could place it under the vehicle, reach under and clip the loops of cable to the pan and then go to the engine bay and pull it up tight.

I personally watch the LOD (engine load) more than any other gauge. However, the scangauge also can read the coolant temp which is very useful in winter, and I also use the 12V quite a bit as I have an alternator disable switch.

For a belly pan, air can still go out the wheel wells. Nothing under the car needs cooling really, but I'd be careful with your pan around the CAT.

I'd like to hear more about your alternator disable. I'm considering a mod so my alternator can ignore the tug battery once recovered from starting to concentrate on the camper battery. The trailer is handicapped by thinner wires so much farther from the alternator.

Cheers
KB

My '02 Tundra 4WD xCab 4.7L says 16 mpg highway on the sticker but I regularly exceed that commuting or towing a trailer and have reproduced 22 mpg when bob tailing on the highway. The ScanGauge has everything to do with helping me drive smarter. Better MPG is just gravy though. Knowing transmission temperature is what I really value most. With 2WD your dad may have more upside with his numbers.

Cheers
KB

Heres the link: Daox's 1997 Paseo Build Thread - Page 12 - Fuel Economy, Hypermiling, EcoModding News and Forum - EcoModder.com

Please ask questions about it in that thread or another to keep this one on topic. :)

numbers
 

Miket,in the 4th Sticky down from the top of the Aero Forum are some mod data info that might help you guestimate potential savings from different mods on the Tundra.

thank you , quite helpful and interesting. However those make me wish that some of my "seminars" in college could have been only a page long lol. I believe you are the one with the T100. Does your bellypan go all the way down to the axles? Can snow pack up in it?


Daox does the mpguino display LOD? I would think that would be related to the amount of fuel injected.

I think im buying the mpguino tommorow, will that detailed temperature data be usefull to my father? Hes not going to be tuning the engine or know what everything means. Hes got the basic temp guage on the dash. If i do a grille block it will be an actuated automatic one. Actually one of the first mods im going to do is replace the clutch driven 18" radiator fan with a used 2 speed ford electric fan. I've heard several people gain 2mpg on tundras when they go to electric.

The mpguino doesn't not display load.

what is the difference between load and the amount of fuel your injecting?

Load is the % of available power you're using. As rpm increases, fuel usage increases for the same load.

Example:

20% load @ 1000 rpm = X fuel usage
20% load @ 2000 rpm = 2X fuel usage


Accelerating at ~80% load and keeping rpms low usually gives the best fuel economy while accelerating.

So load is the number of gallons per second your using listed as a percentage of maximum gallons per second avaiable? why wouldn't the mpguino be able to show that?

This may be obvious, and already incorporated (as with tire pressures, etc). The thought is the analysis of "key-on" time. A log or diary so as not to let memory distort actual use.

One must know the actual cost-per-mile of operation/ownership; expressed as cents-per-mile (see EDMUNDS site). From start to finish on any job, what is my total engine-on time, fuel use, total mileage? If gas goes to $6/gl, how does it affect margin? Where is my case study (a study of one or more of my jobs: big commercial or standard residential, that I may make predictions?) Where is it worth saying to my client that Sherwin-Williams Duration comes with a life-time guarantee . . and needs best possible preparation to eliminate painting every five years (however it works)?

I've noticed that fleets make a great deal out of driving styles, not just the elimination of idle time. Somewhere have seen that one major sets up delivery routing so as to avoid left-hand turns (across traffic increases accident potential; RH-turns are not always signal dependent; etc) so, for a particular job it may be advantageous to see if there is a slightly longer route that allows no stopping. Etc.

Or, in daily use: I've seen the need for the truck/van to be as errand runner for the men during the day: fast food lunch, Western Union to send/receive money, another trip to a supplier, etc. Confining this to end of day, or delay job start until completed. A 12V reefer/frzr "ice chest" would fit the bill to offset the lunch run. Get some comfy folding camp chairs and folding table, etc.

Same with bids: more work on computer versus hanging off paint store stool after leaving client, so, an aircard on laptop on dedicated in-cab stand with a WILSON antenna amplifier rig may be worth looking at where suppliers are up-to-date in communicating thusly.

Distances in Connecticut may not be conducive to some aero work (I'd do it, but something as simple as tarping the ladders may reduce resistance versus their removal), and security/access to tools rather trumps marginal fuel use reduction.

Engine-on time is worth a long hard look, IMO. The utility of a personal vehicle for a contractor is probably best decided at the outset (the new FORD Transit van, for example; Jevons Paradox notwithstanding), and mods/gains may be just a hassle as steady-state distances may not reveal much.

A WEBASTO engine coolant heater (in cab heat, as well) ought to be looked at. Predictability of job-start/job-end daily times would allow full use.

I do know that with any pickup that I would strive to maintain a good front/rear rake despite load. A nose-high truck is a mpg killer, and worn springs/shocks cost real money in all aspects of economy (long life, reliability, etc). To this end I would use a certified public scale to see that FF/RR as well as side-side weight balance is reasonable for permanent tools/supplies, and to be able to guesstimate the best way to load supplies (heavy paint) for those once-per-job trips. Or, on a big commercial job, several times.

Half-ton gasser trucks are weight sensitive in comparison to the larger diesel trucks (where 1,000-lbs has virtually no effect on mileage for an optimized route), so I would do all I could to inventory, organize and "balance" the truck. It may be that a dedicated trailer can offset the weight problem in re ladders, paint delivery, etc. (A diesel-engined TRANSIT with custom trailer might be optimal; question: what would be the "perfect rig"?)

Having used a vacuum gauge on gassers, I especially like the idea above of reading "load" . . that is all too cool and "feels right" on reflection. For a commuter it is just a game to increase mileage, but a vehicle needs to be able to show how it can make money for a man. That MPGuino (or other) would be VERY high on my list.

Our societies dependence on subsidized fuel means that, for a businessman especially that he will have to use analysis more heavily, and tools to that end religiously. This "throwaway" cost of fuel is no longer tenable for a decent profit margin. I know that it is hard to both do the physical work, and then be responsible for the paper work, but it is where the margins exist.

The old attitude I have heard so many times is, just get in the truck and go . . . which is an unfortunate long term habit.

one of the first mods im going to do is replace the clutch driven 18" radiator fan with a used 2 speed ford electric fan. I've heard several people gain 2mpg on tundras when they go to electric.


I'd be very careful about this. Mech fans move tremendous amounts of air. Electric looks good on paper. A loaded work truck just maneuvering around a job site to park can cook the trans and power steering . . in cold weather.


I hope to read what steps have been taken, so, good luck!

.

He does keep a mileage log already for tax deductions.

Duration is good but the lifetime warranty is marketing. How many high end customers will wait till its peeling or blistering and waranteeable and not re-paint it years before when its just faded and bad looking? How many will have documentation and prove it wasnt improperly applied and how may have sold their houses? How many will simply forget? Its a numbers game and at some point extending the warantee to lifetime doesnt cost them much more but helps sales even though its not really going to last a lifetime for just about anyone.. Sherwin williams is only out the replacement cost of the paint not the labor so they wont take that big a hit.

He'll ask his gps for the best route lol.

Hes not that computer savvy. Most of the state doest need an amplifier.

Most of our jobs are withing 15-20 miles but in the last year we've worked down in Manhattan and up in Worcester. Whether i tarp them or not, remove them or not will end up on the distance, i'll have to do some testing.

Why does the rake affect FE? Is it aero, does it expose more of the open underbody? Its a short bed the half ton of load isnt going to be that far from the rear axle. He wants to put a shelving unit on one side and put his machines on the other. How much difference matters?

A simple cooler with frozen pack usually or using the customers refrigerator is sufficient. The usually let us use their microwave. Sometimes though we do want to drive to a good local chinese food joint. We do dont much new construction any more.

It probably would have been a smart idea to get a long bed truck or van and a commuter car. I dont think he has the money to do it right now. Theres not much parking where we live, hed have to keep the commuter on the street, except in the snowy wintertime where hed have to park it very very far away because of the street plowing and would drive the truck more. No room for a trailer. He chains up his ladders behind the dumpster. Less than ideal place but its not going to change that soon.

I think a remote engine start would be much cheaper than a webasto. Its not a diesel and It doesn't get more than 10 below here. average 5 days a year below 0. Quite snowy.

I do know that, I'm putting one of the more powerful electric fans in. Its not texas and he doesn't tow so i don think it will be a problem. If it is i'll replace with the mech fan.

We used to work with another guy who would transport some of equipment but now we do it with one truck. The bedslide and shelf should make it easier to pack the whole 6.5' bed vertically under the cap and make it easier to unload things when not needed. I have a tailgate extender to install for when needed.

AFter all not making extra trips saves alot of gas

Duration is good but the lifetime warranty is marketing. How many high end customers will wait till its peeling or blistering and waranteeable and not re-paint it years before when its just faded and bad looking?

Only offered as an example: $6 gas also means much higher paint prices due to product formulation and transport. Customer may be shocked at bids, and willing to pay for proper prep (documented) and best paint if life is longer. "Mpg" has indirect, not just direct ramifications. When the equipment cost is minimized, then it "may" be possible to make bids that other contractors cannot, is the thinking. They can't afford to.

You already know that low-ballers never make money. The higher price of petroleum "could" work to the favor of a smart and prepared contractor. Marketing is part of that.

He'll ask his gps for the best route lol.


GPS routing is often poor. Planning may include some time looking at alternative routing (more miles on big road to avoid stop-n-go; etc.). I find it easy to "beat" GPS, especially over known terrain and short distances.

Why does the rake affect FE?

Think nose-down: doesn't catch air the way a tail-dragging truck does. Also doesn't change alignment and throw off steering/braking as badly. Trying to match empty rake is beside point, it's about avoiding being nose high.


He wants to put a shelving unit on one side and put his machines on the other. How much difference matters?


You tell me (rhetorical). Is it 600# or 200#? Lopsided balance affects steering response if nothing else, and little things add up in chasing mpg over the long term. When one is setting up a rig for work it pays, IMO, to try to get things right the first time. What happens with a big load of paint loaded onto a lopsided truck?

A big truck operator could save $40,000 by changing to a lower restriction muffler . . because, at 1/4-mpg improvement over 1,000,000 miles that's how much is saved. It pays to think this way.

Sometimes though we do want to drive to a good local chinese food joint. We do dont much new construction any more.


Yup, I like a sit down meal with a waitress to refill the tea glass. Get away completely. But, as this is about mpg, what does it actually cost me, per mile or per job at the end of the year. If I know and understand that cost, then I can more sensibly make that choice. Guesstimates don't count.

It probably would have been a smart idea to get a long bed truck or van and a commuter car.

Not if the work truck is kept up, IMO. Two vehicles aren't economical at all. Fixed expenses alone make it prohibitive, and depreciation makes it a killer. That's why I posed the question about "what would be the perfect rig"? Some time spent studying that paid me when no one else wanted a 2WD DODGE diesel that -- three years old -- I bought for less than HALF the price of new. I knew EXACTLY what I wanted. Judging by current ads I could probably sell it for what I paid for it even with an additional 50,000 miles (and one $300 repair). That doesn't take into account deductible miles, etc.

My point is that, bought correctly at the outset it will return longest life with best performance and reliability. Which is why I mentioned the FORD Transit: European, (sold there with a diesel; so teething problems over), smaller/easier to maneuver and probably enough payload for a painter. Use the time now to explore the best possible truck or rig for when fuel prices inevitably rise. If I know what it best -- and why -- then I am ahead when in the market for my next vehicle. One always has to look/plan ahead.

Economy is much larger than fuel cost. Initial purchase price spread out over miles and years (including depreciation, finance charges, insurance, maintenance, repairs, etc) are the big picutre. As much as fuel costs, the fixed expenses plus depreciation are worse.

The guys who buy used and then abuse some old truck every five years are practicing false economy (and never seem to be on time or on target, you know the ones I mean).

Bummer about no room for a trailer. I really believe that is the answer for many in re vehicle size for the job. Let the tow vehicle be a bit smaller is the thinking.

Most of our jobs are withing 15-20 miles but in the last year we've worked down in Manhattan and up in Worcester.

I think a remote engine start would be much cheaper than a webasto. Its not a diesel and It doesn't get more than 10 below here. average 5 days a year below 0. Quite snowy.

These two go together in considering a coolant heater. One, although some may argue, I don't believe that a vehicle is warmed up until it has driven about 30-miles. Coolant temp is almost irrelevant, it is the oil and greases that take forever to warm up. And then, Two, to "burn off" the acids and other nasties that have accumulated in the sumps it takes even more miles past that initial thirty. For that reason I have tried for almost 40-years to avoid turning the key unless the trips could be combined into a loop of at least 30-miles.

As a rule of thumb it takes 1.5 hours of steady state driving before all systems (including tire pressure) stabilize.

WEBASTO and ESPAR both used to make a gasoline fired version. Remote or on a timer. Expensive, yes, but with fixed times daily for starting it is easy to set up. The payoff is in a few more years out of the engine.

Remember that the engine oil still has to reach nearly 220F for best economy/performance. Whether it starts at 45F or 90F it has a long way to climb. The comfort and safety aspects are just a real nice bonus. Cutting that warm-up time to nothing is a big deal (as some reading around here will show).

While it may not be worthwhile on a used vehicle, it is worth studying for a future one, as engine life is improved over the long miles. One or two more years from a work vehicle can be the difference between paying cash for the one after that versus financing.

Short trips are the killer. As is idle time.

He does keep a mileage log already for tax deductions.


I figured that. I have gone both ways on either percentage of miles or being more exact. Both have advantages. But, here, I am recommending a per job understanding of how the truck is used: how many bids (miles & engine hours), then ALL hours/miles until job is finished to have an understanding of a "typical" job. Only needs one, two, three of them -- a variety -- to see how it stacks up. And to note each engine start and the purpose of the trip. That's where the money is.Y

My cpm (cents-per-mile) is under .55. Less than the IRS deduction. A new 4WD diesel is above .90 cpm (a killer cost). I know my fuel expense per mile, but it is the overall cpm expense that counts. .12 cpm for fuel is great, but means little if the rest is above .70 cpm.

And, as before, this may already be the practice. Once it is translated into cents-per-mile then all forecasting is in place to look forward to the point of time and miles where another -- better suited -- vehicle is chosen.

If I run 25,000 business only miles in a major metro Texas city (easy to do) then the IRS deduction of $14,000 + looks very nice . . until I realize that every bit of it goes back to the present and future truck. Getting out of financing a major capital purchase is the name of the game.
And that would include all mods to make it ideal.


AFter all not making extra trips saves alot of gas

Yeah, buddy . . I found trip planning a PITA when first a truck driver. Now it is second nature. I like the "control" over what circumstances I can see: traffic, road type, weather, etc. Same with analysing how it all came together.

So long as I am dependent on a vehicle for my income -- at a time when fuel prices may rise drastically or fuel availability be random -- it pays me to know and practice every trick, system and method I can find.

So I'd try the aero stuff even though around town it may not matter (and it's ready for the long trips); look to see how the best practice of loading or driving or what planning is worth it.

Too many guys will be caught with their pants down in a fuel crunch cause half the battle is experience in re fuel mileage and vehicle life. Too many little things to learn what works to suddenly change over in one day.

In the early 1970's a lot of great cars got traded off in favor of some Jap junk that was, in turn, replaced four/five times over the next 15-20 years in favor of "economy". In fact, those late '60's/early 70's cars were some of the best ever built for stone axe reliability. And learning to tune them, convert to radial tires and electronic ignition made for significant mpg improvement. I just sold my '71 Chrysler a few years ago. On the road as a daily driver for over thirty years. Twenty years isnt that hard, and fifteen ought to be a minimum (or, maybe 200k+ on a gasser). This truck in sig is pretty much the first computer-controlled vehicle I've owned. The guy who keeps it longest is the economy king (given correct vehicle choice at outset).

So good luck with helping your Dad . . mine passed away three months ago Wednesday. Naturally, I've been thinking about him, and as I am painting the exterior of my house your thread caught my eye (a brush/roll job and Duration is a pain, BUT it keeps me off the ladders/roof the second time) . . . so it is to the "larger picture" he introduced me to in re vehicles, business and the rest that I have tried to be of help. We had a lot of fun trying different things.

Even if it didn't always appear that way to outsiders as we "discussed". :eek:

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