Turbo charged scooter?
 

It seems that the scooters that actually get good fuel mileage tend to be the smaller ones (50cc). But in an effort to attain highway speeds it seems that usually the CC's are increased, and mileage decreased. What about adding a turbo charger to a small engine and then putting that in some sort of a scooter?

Small Engine Turbo Charger - Small Turbo Kits | RHB31 VZ21 Turbo charger

I would think the turbo might allow for lower RPMs too. Any thoughts? Which engine would be the best for this operation?

I'm thinking of a very aerodynamic custom scooter. Maybe a hybrid. Would likely need a regular manual transmission. I don't know if this could be put together though with off the shelve parts.

They say that turbo needs at least 125cc. Projects like that are fun to think about but they never get finished and running right. Major changes in gearing are almost impossible with a CVT scooter.

I was wanting to avoid the CVT all together and go with a manual transmission, even if that meant doing a motorcycle instead of a scooter. I understand that belt driven CVTs are not very efficient.

There is some loss to a CVT vs gear driven. Smaller child size dirt bikes and ATVs come with 3 or 4 speed transmissions. Check out a Yamaha Zuma50FX with 12:1 compression ratio or a 125cc Honda Grom. Engine compression ratio and aero drag reduction may give the biggest efficiency gains. MotoIQ.com does a Honda Ruckus project to get highway speed.

Ya. I wish there were some way to do a 150cc turbo diesel engine. But 12:1 CR is pretty impressive. I'll have to look into it.

I was planning on buying a 350cc yamaha warrior and was thinking about throwing a turbo such as this with 3psi of boost... Hmm...

The only scooters with forced induction as a stock feature were some Peugeot ones, and they relied on a supercharger instead of a turbo.


Just a remind: Mazda's SkyActiv-D turbodiesels have a 14:1 compression ratio. Maybe it's not so impossible at all to make that 150cc turbodiesel you wish...

My Golf has a 23:1 CR. At 50mpg or 60mpg (stock with no mods at highway speeds) for four or five passengers that's really good. A scooter/motorcycle with one or two passengers would hopefully get at least 100mpg. I wonder what all the technical feasibilities would be in constructing a 150cc turbocharged diesel engine with a twenty something to one compression ratio.

The Honda Grom looks impressive. Apparently it can attain speeds of up to almost 65mph. I bet that with a major aerodynamic overhaul it would get quite a bit better fuel mileage or even top speed. Integrating a turbo would be cool and help Keep from wanting to stay in low gear. But I wonder how hard it would be to pull off the task of adapting a turbo to this bike and what the actual out come would be.

First of all I'd have to find space for the turbo and possibly intercooler plus all the plumbing. With added intake pressure there would likely be a need for a larger injector and changes to the ECU. Also there would be the need for better cooling, perhaps through oil sprayers inside the engine and an oil cooler.

I wonder if a small electric motor and high output lithium battery wouldn't be a better option for better acceleration, not to mention regenerative braking.

If you could construct a turbo diesel two wheeler you'd be looking at the holy grail of economy. Hayes made a diesel KLR for the USMC that supposedly got 100mpg without eco driving. They never could get the EPA to certify it for on road use though.

I wonder where they get the Grom's 134mpg rating? Around town, on the highway, both, or on a 25mph strait level road.

Electric drive kills ICE for efficiency but is inconvenient and expensive to put together for out of town travel. An electric hub motor makes a conversion easy. Find a Honda Rebel with a blown engine, convert it to a hub motor, and wrap it in a Vetter streamline fairing to increase the highway range. You will excede 300 MPGe at 70 mph and be sheltered from bad weather. And have 150 liters of storage to carry all of your stuff from the grocery store.

I was thinking more as a hybrid mod, keeping a bike like the Honda 125 Grom's original engine but using a hybrid electric motor somehow to increase acceleration. Of course with the weight it would have to be quite small.

If you would like to keep some parts commonality with a gasser, probably you should resort to indirect injection as it has lower internal pressures than a direct-injection.

Looks like someone else already thought of this. Turbo the Grom!

Turbos are still just a pipe dream over there also. And would kill the fuel efficiency.
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The Grom is cheap and is showing a decent 105 mpgUS for 125 bikes on Fuelly
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Honda Grom 125 Mileage | Fuelly
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But the Honda PCX150 is a much, much nicer machine with full bodywork, better wheelbase and bigger wheels. A real bike for a solo commuter. And gets 96.
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Honda PCX150 Mileage | Fuelly
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The PCX150 looks very enticing! Maybe it, without a turbo, would be a better candidate for my purposes. It would handle having my sweet little wife ride along. But what mods could help such a bike attain even better fuel mileage. I'm thinking a full tear drop shape enclosing the driver and his passenger. Plus it gets cold where I live. An enclosed bike would be a good thing.

Any other thoughts?

A liquid cooled engine is needed to run a heater core in colder weather. What altitude are you at?

About 7,700ft. That's less than the 10,000ft where I used to live. That's kind of another reason why I was thinking either turbo or electric hybrid mod.

And it does get to -40* F here.

Do you think it would be advantageous to add a turbo, but to regulate it so as to only increase boost to sea level atmospheric pressure? If I get a bike it may see as high as 12,000 ft above sea level.

It doesn't sound so advantageous at all. But since you're going to ride at such extreme altitudes, turbocharging is a very sensible option.

So not advantageous, but sensible. Mmm...

Not advantageous to limit its boost to use it just as an "altitude compensator" when you can go a little further.

I see. I wouldn't mind going a little further, but I wouldn't want to go so far that for one, I'd have to redo the who thing with a bigger injector, new ECU and have to figure out all my own spark and fuel tables, and two, possibly have to get custom forged rod, crank, and piston and who knows what else.

But if I did go the turbo route, maybe adding a bigger injector and a new ECU would be the least of my problems.

I am referring to modding a new bike like the Honda PCX150. On an old bike or scooter I wouldn't mind going crazy with the turbo.

Turbocharging a scooter won't turn it into a Hayabusa-killer instantly. Don't need to go that far, but still, why just use the turbo to compensate for altitude when you can get a little more boost to improve the low-end torque and make it more suitable to some open-road stretches?

Oh no! I wasn't wanting some sort of sports bike at all. My cars are so underpowered that on any sort of an incline everyone passes me. I just think it would be a bit safer to keep up with traffic on a bike.

At any rate my main goal is fuel mileage. I think sacrificing a few MPGs going with the PCX 150 instead of the 125 is compensated by the slightly extra power. It does have a 10:1 CR. I think most gains would be in aero mods:

http://thescooterscoop.com/wp-conten.../07/honda2.jpg

Maybe my altitude is a good thing. The air up here is between 4 to 5 PSI lower than the usual 14.7 PSI at sea level. That's kind of like a natural governor that keeps it always at part throttle. Plus there's less air drag as a result.

However, there is a noticeable decrease in acceleration in my cars up here in comparison to sea level driving. I'm sure these bikes aren't the exception.

Scooters are awesome at simplifying your life. So easy to live with and basically 0 maintenance required to run.


You really can't go wrong with the honda pcx. The only comment I hear from owners, is the valve clearance interval checks. 2500 miles. That aside, they appear bulletproof.

Cycle gear sells electric jackets and gloves that keep you warm while riding.
Their body liners work very well as well.

I enjoy reading the battlescooters forum on the adv website.

Hey! The valve check and adjustment on my Beetle is every 3,000 miles! And that's 4 times the valves!

Ya, simplifying sounds good. I got three old cars and never have enough time to fix them up like they should be, let alone mod them for fuel mileage. Yes, I dream a lot of making them all the fuel mileage masters of the universe. But maybe selling two of them for now and getting a scooter would be the sensible thing to do. It's just my wife and I now.

So I guess the first thing to do would be to buy an actual scooter or motorcycle and see if it had enough umph up here. If not, then contemplate boosting the induction.

About how much CFM would a 150cc engine draw? Maybe all I need is the blower off of a Hoover vacuum cleaner attached with a small belt to the engine and then call it a supercharger.

What about an En-Trak motor on the front wheel? Would that be a bad idea?

The rule on supercharging(turbo) is for each 1% increase of inlet pressure there is a 1% increase in gross horsepower. Cubic feet per minute can be converted to the cubic displacement times engine revolutions per minute. CID x RPM = CFM

I wonder what RPM the Honda PCX 150 reaches. I calculated that a 150cc 4 stroke engine at 6,000 RPM draws 15.892 CFM.

At my altitude there would be about a 30% decrease in power.

Ok. Maybe this is a really stupid question. But adding the lines of going with a hybrid electric motor instead of a turbocharger,

How unsafe would a 5kW pusher trailer on a bike be?

It can be done. Check this link for a pre-made turbo kit.

FBM BIG BORE + FBM Turbo = 27hp and 19ft lbs !!

It's kind of pricey thou.

Full Blown Stage 1 Turbo Kit Honda Grom MSX125 - FRS, BRZ, Turbo Kit, Fabrication, Fuel System


I have been dreaming of adding a turbo to my bike, I could do it, I just need to start it LOL.

Gil.

WOW! Finally I see that it's possible!

A turbo answer to a question I would never ask.
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What motorcycle are you riding now?

Do you mean Etek? Incredibly bad idea, the Etek (what few of them are still available, or else one of its many clones) is 25lbs, you don't want that on the front wheel if you can avoid it.

Not unsafe at all in my opinion, I've seen homebrew pushers with 6.5hp, that's close to the power level you're talking about. They're even on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDSkjz8tOcY

None. Actually I do have a small Razor but it needs a new battery. I've been eye-balling the Honda PCX 150. The reason is that I would like to sell all but one of my cars and have a scooter or motorcycle that I can take on the highway and venture down to the city every once in a while, plus use around town. I'd want something very fuel efficient. I can already get as much as 60mpg in my Golf. I'd hate to buy a bike that gets less.

I meant the Ener-Trac hub wheel. But you're right. A bunch of inspiring weight on the front wheel is a bad idea.

Ok. But do you think it would be safe at 45 mph? Of course 5kW or 6.5hp at higher speeds means less torque, so maybe I'm safe