The *Ultimate* Aerodynamic Car? Dave Cloud's "Dolphin"
 

I just about swooned when I saw this car! Someone on the EV Discussion List mentioned it, and posted a link to these pictures:

Picasa Web Albums - lektwik - Dave's Stream...

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_7AHFbFOAexA/S9...7TN0/DD001.jpghttp://lh5.ggpht.com/_7AHFbFOAexA/S9..._nFQ/DD003.jpghttp://lh4.ggpht.com/_7AHFbFOAexA/S9...REVQ/DD004.jpghttp://lh6.ggpht.com/_7AHFbFOAexA/S9...0EWY/DD005.jpghttp://lh5.ggpht.com/_7AHFbFOAexA/S9...1cCI/DD007.jpghttp://lh3.ggpht.com/_7AHFbFOAexA/S9...zH_M/DD008.jpghttp://lh5.ggpht.com/_7AHFbFOAexA/S9...3eHI/DD009.jpghttp://lh6.ggpht.com/_7AHFbFOAexA/S9...BEkk/DD011.jpghttp://lh3.ggpht.com/_7AHFbFOAexA/S9...R_Oc/DD013.jpghttp://lh6.ggpht.com/_7AHFbFOAexA/S9...tVZQ/DD014.jpghttp://lh5.ggpht.com/_7AHFbFOAexA/S9...IC5s/DD016.jpghttp://lh3.ggpht.com/_7AHFbFOAexA/S9...o6Pg/DD017.jpg

If you are not blown away by this, then you need to check your pulse...

This is as near to perfect an aerodynamic package as I have seen, period. Sure, it is a little bit long, and the front license plate needs a spot other than the windshield... but this car is a stunningly beautiful thing.

Apparently, Dave Cloud wanted to enter in the X-Prize, but was prevented from doing this because of the expense and difficulty of entering. And no surprise, he wins the contests he enters...

Here's what we know (so far):

[Edit: I found a page with more technical info: Dave Cloud's Rally Car. It is heavy, using sixty lead acid batteries that each weigh 33 pounds; totally 1,980 pounds for the batteries alone. The car weighs 3,200 pounds.]

I am going to find out more about this car, and it's builder. He has got more Bassjoos than Bassjoos!

That's wild looking. Needs to paint it yellow, and name it the Electric Banana.

When I read the thread title, I kind of rolled my eyes, thinking "ultimate" is not a title that should be awarded lightly.

But, wow.

I want my Insight to look like that. Also, I want to know all about this car. What did he build it out of? What are the dimensions and drag area? Static rollover stability? (probably pretty good if it's got a lot of batteries inside) Cornering radius?

And look at the timestamp on the photos: 2004.

The date stamp maybe incorrect. When cameras reset their date stamp (from the lack of batteries, or etc), they goto the 1st of the year.

Photo data in the album say may 1st, so it's recent.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1273000868
It looks great to me. Having a roof that slightly exceeds the curvature of the template appears to work out as long as your sides curve inward, too.

I'd bet you a dollar it used to be a Metro, judging by the parts that I recognize (tail lights, wheels, front quarter, doors, windshield shape, steering wheel).

Also, I recognize the name. Dave Cloud has toyed with Metros before - aeromodding this sexy EV platform:

http://www.seattleeva.org/images/thu...x-P6250018.JPG

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ropped-90.html

PS: forgot to say... wow. This guy is my hero. :D

This is the photo that made me do a double take:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1264546553

Same tail lights.

Hey Neil - did you learn about this on the EVDL just today? I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else before...

That's gorgeous

Hi Darin,

Yes, Steven Lough posted it on an X-Prize thread. I got Dave's email from the Seattle EV group, and I've already emailed him -- trying not to ask too many questions right off the bat! I hope he's willing and able to share about how he built it!

If it is a Metro, it is stretched, pinched, pulled, and man it is sleek...

:thumbup: :thumbup:

R.I.P-Super-sized
 

I'll bet there are a number of deceased aero guys smiling in their graves.:rolleyes::thumbup::p:)

More info here and a few more pics.

Dave Cloud's Rally Car

Yes, it is heavy! 3,200 pounds -- but the batteries can be changed. The body is amazing...

Awaiting some good answers. Awesome!

Neil -

I usually can't get into some of the pure aero-shape cars I've seen, but that's amazing.

Go Dolphins!

CarloSW2

In for Epic Thread.

... of the year!

fusion210, that EV Album entry has some great info - thanks for posting. (I went looking for it earlier but struck out).

1997 Metro host car... 65 mph top speed, 200 mile range (though he doesn't state at what speed), and on only 72 volts!

I want to calculate his CdA. The best way to do it: how many horsepower does he need to hold 65mph? The second-best way to do it: at what speed does he draw 150Wh/mi, and what's the efficiency of his motor?

The post on EVDL mentioned ~170wH/mile. I think the top speed is voltage limited? It has two electric motors; one driving each wheel, and it appears to be chain drive -- a sprocket is just visible on the outside of the driver's side rear wheel in one on the shots from down low and behind the car.

Beautiful! It is what I would have done with my car if I had a lot more than $400 to play with. Its the best automobile aero I have seen on anything outside of a few solar racers. The only place where I can see that the aero that could be improved is installing front wheel well skirts, doing some more cleanup on the leading and trailing edges of the wheels, and taping up some of the coroplast seams on the underside. He has a rear wheel boattail, but it could be made more aggressive (extend closer to the ground) and built of inexpensive, flexible materials that could be easily repaired or replaced if they gets damaged by road debris. It looks like he has some visibility out of the rear window, the lack of which is a fault in many aero designs, but is needed if they are to mix with heavy traffic. My local cops would have problems with those covered license plates (especially with the one displayed in the front window). With that stretched wheel base, I wonder how large the turning circle is? From the info on that EV page, it looks like this car was designed specifically for EV competitions rather than for use as a daily driver. If it can go 200 miles on lead acid batteries, I wonder what the range would be on lithium batteries. If it behaves anything like my car, with 3000+ lbs and its low Cd, unless there is some maximum allowable rpm on the electric motors, it should easily be able to exceed 65mph in a coast on any slight downhill.

Amazing design, but that curb weight definitely needs to go down. Maybe the next one could be made with lighter materials.

Reducing the weight to a rounded ton could probably take that estimated 18 second 0-60 time and bring it down to 10 and increase the range.

Well, I just spoken with the builder, Dave Cloud, on the phone, and he is an impressive guy. He has done about 45 EV conversions, and he is very modest about the Dolphin, or any of his cars. He said this car has a lot of compromises in shape, partly because it keeps the front half of the 1997 Metro.

He did make molds of this car, and I hope he can be convinced to continue to develop it -- it is one heck of great place to start from. Like anybody, he feels like a scratch built car would reduce the compromises.

He plans on doing front wheel skirts -- he's seen your car, Mike, and he likes how you have them bump out.

He's a Maker, as a friend likes to say. Hands on, and do it.

Edit: Here's some performance numbers posted by Dave O'Neel on the EVDL, about the Dolphin:

So, who's gonna' be the first to find some of that video?

Aha! I wondered if that's what I was seeing.

Well, he sure appears to have a formula he likes to follow. His chopped white drag Metro was also converted to rear wheel drive via chains (to a solid axle though, I think).

Come on Insight boat-tailers get 'em done already.
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/q...HI-green-2.jpg
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/q...HI-green-3.jpg

Point to point. That's hardcore!

Damn. I almost went to that Lacey alt energy fair. I'm going next year for sure.

I just checked his location. Just a stone's throw from here.

Yes, it is amazing! Here's some real world data; posted by David O'Neel on the EV Discussion List:

So, ~162wH/mile, on real roads in real traffic, some of it in the rain, and without regen -- impressive to say the least.

I spoke with Dave Cloud (the builder) last night on the phone, and I hope to encourage him to continue to develop this design. I can only imagine how low power consumption it could be with a ~400 pound lithium pack (like maybe the EIG batteries used in the FVT eVaro?), and with a good regen system; again like the FVT eVaro, which gets *all* of it's braking from regen, down to 5mph when the friction brakes take over. The FVT team is at the X-Prize, and I'm sure they will be formidable, with their custom twin permanent magnet motors (0-60 in ~5s) and their custom 20kW gen set. They did all their own battery management, too... They are relatively close, up in British Columbia, IIANM.

This car has that effect on a lot of us! We are drooling, despite ourselves. This car is already getting a lot of attention, and there will be more.

If there are more pictures of it from the Alternative Energy Fair, or on the road (driven in the rain is fine), I hope these can be shared, also. If anybody finds some of the video of this car on the road -- please post it!

Dave -- congratulations on an excellent design, and a really sweet build! You are a true Maker, in my opinion. And I'm a definitely not the only one...

Fantastic!
 

This car confirms what the experts have been saying about aerodynamics on this website all along. But no disk wheel covers!?:eek: Did anyone spot where he is hiding his front turn signals? Beautiful build. It should be super stable with all the weight in the nose. Now if I could just find a diesel SmartCar donor car...:thumbup:

I think that the front turn signals are in the head light housing but the angle/glare keeps you from seeing them in the pics.

According to his info on EV Album, there are 60 lead acid batteries installed (33 lbs each) for a 1,980 lbs total battery weight. If you subtract that from the 3200 lbs curb weight, it gives a 1220 lbs vehicle weight without batteries. This is a low weight, given that it has the front half of a Metro hidden inside and needs to have the structural strength needed to support a ton of battery weight in that long wheel base.

I don't know anyone (locally) who would not laugh at me for driving a car like that. But then, most of the people I know don't really care about the environment, renewable energy, lowering their homes energy consumption through thoughtful improvements, etc.

Since that crowd doesn't translate into Mark's (me) opinion, I would dearly like to have one like this. I hope he shares more about how he did this. At 170 watts/mile (I rounded up for safety), I could make my 40 mile roundtrip commute on 6.8 kilowatts of electricity, which means at 8.5 cents per kilowatt hour, it would cost me about $0.58 to drive to work and back. :D:D

A BIG :thumbup: for this streamliner!

$7000 spent on LiFePO4's would give as much range as his used lead-acids (which isn't a fair comparison), and bring battery weight down to 375 lbs!

The fair comparison would be against 11 virgin lead-acid GC2 batteries, costing $650 and weighing 748lbs.

Wow, 400lbs of battery giving 200mi of range... that's something you'd want to put in an Insight body, right there.

Imagine... designing and completing a project car, using sound engineering and prototyping principles, relaying accurate, measured performance statistics to those interested, and not stopping 1/3 of the way through to publicly beg for money! :eek:

I gotta say, there is nothing wrong with a 3200lb curb weight when you get:
200 mile range
72 mph top speed
$3000 conversion cost!!!

It's almost hard to believe.

I also like the twin motor setup, has each rear wheel driven by its own motor (and controller and battery pack).

I wonder if he could tweak some more acceleration with a series/parallel motor switch.

That is to say, leave the two series wound motors in place, but connect them to each other in series at low speed, and when the battery and motor voltage almost meet then switch them to parallel.

I wonder how the "differential" function of this setup happens?

170 WH / mile? Wow. Using the conversion factor 35 kwh = 1 gallon, gives us an equivalent of 205 MPG!

Oh, further info on that efficiency number: they ran with two strings of 12 batteries; and not the full compliment of 60 batteries. One set of 12 were the 33 pounders, and the second set of 12 were heavier, but the same power. And they are all used batteries...

The conversion factor listed on Wikipedia is 33.4kWh/gal, so about 214MPGe? Just imagine what it could be with 400 pounds of lithium batteries and regenerative braking? Of course, that would require front wheel drive -- and so you could use more efficient electric motor, too!

Or when you consider that power plants can only produce electricity at 30-40% efficiency*, it's 13.4KWh/gal, or 89mpge. Still impressive.

And don't judge it just by the amount of energy it consumes. America's fleet could use a little bit more flexibility when it comes to energy sources.

When turning right, your driver's side engine would rev up higher, and your passenger's side engine would slow down. That might tend to have a destabilizing effect. I guess you could just let off the "throttle" in a corner.