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richard_lyew 04-18-2011 12:10 AM

Ultra Lean
 
hi all, here is the real ECO mod hyper milling ultra clean Eco friendly.

2004 Saturn Ion 72MPG, fully re-tuned, less than 2% emission, no lost of power, no turning your engine off. drive around with AC and music blasting all day :D

youtube.com/watch?v=VH8Wu1GHGg4

Ryland 04-18-2011 01:54 AM

I don't fallow what is going on in the video, the engine sounds like the ignition is retarded and the idle is turned way down, I can see that the electrolizer is bubbling away and judging from the size of wires (green cables) it must be drawing alot of amps, check engine light is also on, so what other sensors have been messed with?
I assume that the small round gauge to the left is an air fuel ratio... 13:1 is running rich, I didn't catch on to what the -20 to -45 on the adjustable gauge was as that didn't seem to be making any drastic changes.
But for 70mpg from any of this?? show it driving down the road and turn the device off and show the mileage drop, if it does, show proof that it is doing something.

Frank Lee 04-18-2011 02:04 AM

Electrolyzer? That's all I need to know. Unicorn corral! :rolleyes:

tjts1 04-18-2011 03:02 AM

It would help if you provided some explanation about exactly what you did to the car. From the video it just looks like it's idling rich and the CEL is on.

lil red rocket 04-18-2011 03:27 AM

im with everyone else, i didnt get anything from that video. it looks like i can put a tank of water in my car with a fish tank aerator and get the same results. some narrating would have been very helpful

arcosine 04-18-2011 08:19 AM

Yes, another "too good to be true" claim.

theycallmeebryan 04-18-2011 10:33 AM

72mpg while idling in the garage? Wow, that's even more impressive than your 72mpg CITY claim. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

richard_lyew 04-18-2011 11:41 AM

hahahaaaa i can see there are no tuners on this forum. ok i use big wires because i don't want any current leak NOT because its drawing alot of amps. next answer YES im glad you see it is running rich even after i -40% thanks for making everybody aware of that.

here it is in a nut shell. i built a one of a kind reactor which is very efficient and makes 4LPM from 30-35amps, then i clean the output and port it directly to my idle intake in the center of my air flow stream to evenly distribute the gas.

the VAFC is a air/fuel controller. i use it to re-tune my car's air/fuel ratio and it only starts to lean out after i lean way back to 45%. the maximum you can lean back is -50% because the cars come at 50%. most race tuners use the AFC to add fuel to go faster eg. +10 for every 1000RPM ect but im on the (-) minus side of tuning and leaning your car back to -40% and still have enough hydrogen to run it rich is to most people totally impossible.

notice in the video when i minus more than -40% it gets leaner but at -40% its rich enough so it wont damage your engine. if you think i can only -40% sitting idle on my garage you are sadly mistaken. i will do a video soon of my car driving at -40% @ 45mph or if the speed limit permits me i will do 50mph.

all this as i said will be new to alot of you but as soon as a tuner see this just ask then if what im doing is possible and they will tell you NO. LOL no because they are prison in that little box.

driving videos coming soon

tjts1 04-18-2011 12:08 PM

If all that were true, you should be able to switch your device OFF and ON and see your WBO2 go from rich to lean and back again at the flip of a switch while the engine is under load, not just idling. It takes 10-20 times the injector DC to cruise down the road vs idling so in order to maintain the same -40% fuel trim you gas generator would need to increase its output proportionally.

You're making a very big claim here and I'm skeptical as is everyone else. You'll need to provide much better data in order to convince anyone around here. Just showing that your device is running -40% fuel trim at idle while drawing 30a isn't enough.
cheers

euromodder 04-18-2011 12:22 PM

OK, clean installation.

Can we see some results please - i.e. back-to-back testing with / without the system and/or some long term fuel records ?

akumabito 04-18-2011 01:41 PM

*big claim*
"One of a ckind reactor"
"Nobody would understand it"
*No proof offered*

Mehh, I am less than impressed thus far..

jakobnev 04-18-2011 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Youtube:
and 72MPG city up from 22MPG city

I'm impressed, that's like going from 20% to 65.5% efficient, i bet Jean Pierre Carnot is impressed too - to the extent that he is turning over in his grave!

Joenavy85 04-18-2011 02:59 PM

i can make my jeep do that with only a floor jack, and 2 jackstands. lift up the drive wheels and put it in 5th gear and gently let the clutch out. no real engine load other than the friction losses from the trans, and no wind resistance.

JasonG 04-18-2011 03:40 PM

?
As a career electrician, please explain more about this "current leakage" learning.
10-8AWG wire will carry your 30-35A more than sufficiently.
The insulations value handles leakage or short value. THHN (regular house wire) is good for 600V. Even car wiring is good for 300V.

Are you running pulses in the KV range ?

richard_lyew 04-18-2011 10:54 PM

ill let this stay on this site and see if anybody will learn anything from it. and ill sit and wait for a tuner to come along and tell you people what is going on. i see that this forum is filled with alot of people who love to jump down the new guys throat LOL. im not here for that so ill sit back and watch.

im making a trip to the airport tomorrow so ill make a video driving at -40% stop and go ect.

moorecomp 04-18-2011 11:55 PM

http://www.online-literature.com/for...deadhorse5.gif

tjts1 04-19-2011 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard_lyew (Post 232495)
ill let this stay on this site and see if anybody will learn anything from it. and ill sit and wait for a tuner to come along and tell you people what is going on. i see that this forum is filled with alot of people who love to jump down the new guys throat LOL. im not here for that so ill sit back and watch.

im making a trip to the airport tomorrow so ill make a video driving at -40% stop and go ect.

Thats great but that still doesn't really prove anything. You're trying to make extraordinary claims without extraordinary evidence. Good luck convincing anyone on any forum.

akumabito 04-19-2011 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard_lyew (Post 232495)
i see that this forum is filled with alot of people who love to jump down the new guys throat LOL.

Hey, Im new here, and I seem to be doing OK.. the secret? Don't make wild claims you can't back up.. :)

richard_lyew 04-19-2011 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1 (Post 232508)
Thats great but that still doesn't really prove anything. You're trying to make extraordinary claims without extraordinary evidence. Good luck convincing anyone on any forum.

lol im not trying. i have done it. its there. and im not trying to convince anybody of anything or to do anything or to buy anything.

i just made this post to show that its been done. :D believe it or not, its done and as soon as someone understand the whole thing fully it will be a mystery to alot. im a pro tuner. only person can answer the tuning side of this video is another pro tuner. and as for the HHO side only a pro HHO person can answer those questions. for all who just want to cuss and say it don't work even thou you have NEVER seen a system like this or understand how it works feel free to cuss. i understand people like you, fear what you don't understand and hate what you cant conquer LOL i pity you.

videos coming today

Joenavy85 04-19-2011 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard_lyew (Post 232574)
i just made this post to show that its been done. :D

except you haven't shown anything other than a car that miraculously gets good mileage while standing still, with a plexiglass fish tank and some wires and hoses coming out of it on the front

MetroMPG 04-19-2011 01:06 PM

richard lyew, you might want to read these two threads to get an idea of what type of evidence members here would like to see.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ery-11445.html

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...uel-15251.html (I realize you haven't attempted to sell anything yet, but this thread is still relevant.)

With respect, posting a couple of YouTube videos that show amazing numbers on a fuel economy display don't quite count as quality evidence.

TheEnemy 04-19-2011 01:24 PM

Im not a pro-tuner, but
 
You were adjusting the long term fuel trim right?

So what was the short term fuel trim?

tjts1 04-19-2011 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard_lyew (Post 232574)
lol im not trying. i have done it. its there. and im not trying to convince anybody of anything or to do anything or to buy anything.

You should be happy then because you haven't convinced anyone thus far.
Quote:

Originally Posted by richard_lyew (Post 232574)
im a pro tuner. only person can answer the tuning side of this video is another pro tuner.

Somebody call up that other pro tuner because you're doing an awfully poor job of explaining anything.

Joenavy85 04-19-2011 01:29 PM

i saw the correction factor at -50%, and i then saw the rpm at 388 RPM (according to his meter) and yet his tach showed about double that. so let's see, 780RPM Idle reduced by 50% (hence the "-") and you get 390 RPM. seems to me like he did the equivilant of calibrating his SGII to read that he was hardly using any fuel when he was using the normal amount.

TheEnemy 04-19-2011 01:36 PM

And just to be clear on a couple of things,

SAE did research hydrogen to support leaner fuel trims. Their findings were yes it worked, but that the savings weren't worth the extra complexity.

If you had claimed a 2%, 5% or even 10% improvement some people here might be more inclined to believe you. But a 3X improvement.... no. Your going to have to really show some good proof.

Does anyone know if an O2 sensor will give readings on H2? Or does it have to be a hydrocarbon?

Joenavy85 04-19-2011 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheEnemy (Post 232591)
SAE did research

Now you did it, now this guy is going to denounce SAE saying that they aren't Pro Tuners

UFO 04-19-2011 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheEnemy (Post 232591)
And just to be clear on a couple of things,

SAE did research hydrogen to support leaner fuel trims. Their findings were yes it worked, but that the savings weren't worth the extra complexity.

If you had claimed a 2%, 5% or even 10% improvement some people here might be more inclined to believe you. But a 3X improvement.... no. Your going to have to really show some good proof.

Does anyone know if an O2 sensor will give readings on H2? Or does it have to be a hydrocarbon?

Everyone knows the bigger the lie, the more likely people are going to believe it.

Seriously.
:turtle:

And an O2 sensor measures oxygen in the exhaust. Hydrogen will not affect it.

cfg83 04-19-2011 02:45 PM

richard_lyew -

I would assume that you can use your APEXi to datalog. Can you output sensor data into a CSV file for importing into Excel?

CarloSW2

richard_lyew 04-19-2011 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfg83 (Post 232608)
richard_lyew -

I would assume that you can use your APEXi to datalog. Can you output sensor data into a CSV file for importing into Excel?

CarloSW2

CVS? i want one of those little computers that you guys use to measure MPG so i can connect it to the output signal of my AFC which the car's ECU is getting so you guys can see.

where do i get one of these devices?

richard_lyew 04-19-2011 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheEnemy (Post 232591)
And just to be clear on a couple of things,

SAE did research hydrogen to support leaner fuel trims. Their findings were yes it worked, but that the savings weren't worth the extra complexity.

If you had claimed a 2%, 5% or even 10% improvement some people here might be more inclined to believe you. But a 3X improvement.... no. Your going to have to really show some good proof.

Does anyone know if an O2 sensor will give readings on H2? Or does it have to be a hydrocarbon?

this car dont have a back o2 sensor and im porting my HHO after the MAF right at the main intake right next to the idle intake. the idle intake for this car is a hole right above the main intake butterfly, shown here idle air intake - SaturnFans Forums

theycallmeebryan 04-19-2011 09:46 PM

I have experience with the Haltech E8 Standalone unit (supports full sequential injection, boost control, supplemental injection such as methanol or water, launch control, traction control, etc) in my highly modified Dodge Stratus Coupe that made over 500fwhp, and a FAST XFI standalone computer in my Buick T-type that has run mid 10's in the 1/4 and will run mid 9's after this engine rebuild (crank bearings went).

I honestly got a kick out of this guy calling himself a "Pro Tuner" when he's using an Apexi piggy back unit and just clicking buttons. You call that professional?! LOL. Prove to me that you actually hooked it up right and clicking those buttons actually changes your ECU parameters (IE, turn your super bubble maker off and show us the AFR changing), and then we can further this conversation.

Ryland 04-19-2011 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard_lyew (Post 232722)
CVS? i want one of those little computers that you guys use to measure MPG so i can connect it to the output signal of my AFC which the car's ECU is getting so you guys can see.

where do i get one of these devices?

http://ecomodder.com/forum/scangauge...nomy-gauge.php
http://ecomodder.com/imgs/ScanGauge/sg-mini-ad.jpg

Is the Ecomodder discounted ScanGauge, well worth the money.

cfg83 04-19-2011 10:27 PM

richard_lyew -

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard_lyew (Post 232722)
CVS?

CSV = Comma-separated values - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:

i want one of those little computers that you guys use to measure MPG so i can connect it to the output signal of my AFC which the car's ECU is getting so you guys can see.

where do i get one of these devices?

I looked up your APEXi VAFC :

http://apexi-usa.com/content/pdf6135.pdf

Some tuner gizmos can do datalogging, but not the one you are using. Scangauge can't do datalogging for offloading data, but it can connect to the OBDII port no problemo.

CarloSW2

richard_lyew 04-19-2011 10:39 PM

hahaaa you think my car can only idle at -40%? hahahaaa how about doing 50+MPH at -40%?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_aB2c0PaHw

better yet, how about driving in the rain with AC, lights and wipers on?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmnOs9tC7UQ

i bet you cant even idle at -30% with your car LMAO

richard_lyew 04-19-2011 10:41 PM

thanks alot CarloSW2. i will look into getting one soon

richard_lyew 04-19-2011 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theycallmeebryan (Post 232741)
I have experience with the Haltech E8 Standalone unit (supports full sequential injection, boost control, supplemental injection such as methanol or water, launch control, traction control, etc) in my highly modified Dodge Stratus Coupe that made over 500fwhp, and a FAST XFI standalone computer in my Buick T-type that has run mid 10's in the 1/4 and will run mid 9's after this engine rebuild (crank bearings went).

I honestly got a kick out of this guy calling himself a "Pro Tuner" when he's using an Apexi piggy back unit and just clicking buttons. You call that professional?! LOL. Prove to me that you actually hooked it up right and clicking those buttons actually changes your ECU parameters (IE, turn your super bubble maker off and show us the AFR changing), and then we can further this conversation.

hahahaaa as for you sir you are just a cereal box tuner that does the same thing that have been done for years and still doing(nothing new). the (+) side of tuning is NOTHING compare to the (-) side of tuning. i bet if you should try to tune on the lean side you would burn soooooooooooo many engines because its not what you are used to LOL. what im doing is totally new to you that's why you don't understand and maybe next year you will start to understand a little more. this forum has a long way to go but ill be here.

theycallmeebryan 04-19-2011 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard_lyew (Post 232761)
hahahaaa as for you sir you are just a cereal box tuner that does the same thing that have been done for years and still doing(nothing new). the (+) side of tuning is NOTHING compare to the (-) side of tuning. i bet if you should try to tune on the lean side you would burn soooooooooooo many engines because its not what you are used to LOL. what im doing is totally new to you that's why you don't understand and maybe next year you will start to understand a little more. this forum has a long way to go but ill be here.

Your videos are proving nothing. I can hook up an Apexi unit to any car and have it say whatever the hell i want it to say (for example, your rpm's are 1/2 of what they really are).

BTW, what's so special about what you are doing? You have no way of controlling timing, so all you are doing is taking fuel away. How can you possibly call that pro tuning?

I've tuned on the lean side many times and all my engines were fine. Good quality after market computers with high resolution fuel and ignition maps allow you to do that. Couple that with sequential injection control (ability to control the pulse width of every individual injector separately), wideband inputs for each cylinder, and EGT's for each bank, and you have enough information to push the limits. Nevertheless, a "pro tuner" will know that the lean threshold is dependent on the engine configuration.

We the trustworthy members of Ecomodder.com are not newbie bashers.... but when a newbie comes riding in on his sparkling unicorn, we make sure others aren't glamored by it, unless they can prove the unicorn is real.

tjts1 04-20-2011 12:13 AM

How is anyone supposed to believe that your device is accurately reading fuel trim when it can't even display RPM correctly? You're not fooling anyone.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...g?t=1303272817

moorecomp 04-20-2011 12:40 AM

You all can officially ignore this guy, he was spewing the exact same crap all over the hhoforums.com site back in 2008 and 2009 and ended up getting banned in 2010. The interweb never forgets.

First in the world - HHO Forums - Trying to facilitate the production of HHO for the common folk.

Richard, go back to playing your Call of Duty game. How's the weather in Jamaica? Moderator lock this thread and save us all the pain of this guys rants.

Joenavy85 04-20-2011 09:42 AM

i'm curious how he gets accurate AFR without an O2 sensor


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