Using vapors from gas already going to carb?
What i want to do is route gas to a container and draw fumes out of there and also use that gas to go to the carb after.It would use 2 small fuel pumps,one to pump to the container and from there,another one to pump from the container to the carb.Would this way cut down on the quality of the gas at the carb? This will be for an 86 Toyota engine.
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I'd say, have a beer and do something else.
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I'm not sure, but it sounds as if you are trying to re-invent the carburetor, using the original, rejected design. EFI is darn near perfect as it is.
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the original design was made to draw vapors and use the gas that the vapors came out of? never heard of it.Do you have a link to this?
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No link handy, but early histories tell of carburetors made like humidifiers, with air being drawn through a chamber with fabric panels wicking up gasoline from a pool in the bottom.
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Sounds like something I read about before. google Tom Ogle.
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along the tom ogle thing, watch the documentary "gashole". it does a great job of explaining the tom ogle mystery (conspiracy).
i am an energy engineer and i am hell bent on developing a way to extend the range of CURRENT petrol engine technology. most of my testing is done on my 96 vw cabrio. propane conversion will be dont this spring, however, as i already have all the parts minus the tank, i am thinking about using the vapor carb to develop my own gasoline vapor draw system. a supercharger will be used to pump the vapor/air mix into the engine. fuel lines to rail will be blocked via servo/regulator assembly to avoid damage to the fuel pump and will possibly utilize the a/c system to vaporize and cool the vapor to avoid combustion outside of the cylinders. wanna use my ideas? go for it, some of them arent my ideas, im just building on some concepts ive heard about along with developing my own. this could be a great step if we can all make it work. shell oil company cant kill us all ;) |
You're a what?
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energy engineer, i was a different kind of engineer before i went back to school (combat demolitions, then consrtuction) but now i study energy efficiency. engineers in my field study wind turbines, solar panels, hydrogen as a fuel, etc. im currently trying to make my hour drive to school a bit less fuel consuming.
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Cooling the vapor will result in fuel condensing again. I'd say look elsewhere for improvements. It's got to be good enough to substantially beat the now onrushing direct injection ... 70 years after WW2. |
ik some of this is old tech. the only way to figure out how to move forward is to see what went wrong in the past. ur right about it condensing as it gets cooler. just playing around with ideas and others' concepts before i go blowin up my daily driver. another idea is to use a coil/converter to heat the fuel to 350 or so *F and bench test at what pressures it will vaporize. any insight would be welcome to avoid brick walls. flaming without proof will be ignored.
the propane thing is because the price of lpg around here is less than $2.50/gallon while gasoline is over $3.50. even with the lowered btu/hr the cost savings justify it for me. also with bio-propane being captured from bio-mass production, bio-propane and DME will soon be sustainable fuels. |
sounds like the OP is just looking to use the waste vapors from the tank. fortunately, it's already been done, quite a few years back.
it is the charcoal canister under the hood. the vapors are absorbed by the charcoal and then released into the intake under vacuum when the engine is running. |
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Thanks for making me laugh, Frank. I needed it. |
so you want to add a geet reactor to your car?
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the problem with plumbing the vapor directly into the engine is that it is isnt metered. the engine would run rich. unless it isnt enough to make a difference, in which would make this mod useless. |
isnt this just an evaporative emissions system were talkin about here???
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Now you come here and you want to ignore all that looking at what was wrong and go back to the stone age? And you've already started to add a bunch of epicycles in the form of heating and cooling to make it work. I say instead look ahead, and put the injectors right back there at the very end of the tail pipe! /jk No, but maybe look at what you can do to make DI doable for the home tinkerer. |
Since you already have the evaporative emissions purge circuit, the question becomes, what would happen if you introduced another fuel supply through the purge hose connection to the manifold?
The fuel management system would reduce the gasoline supply through the injectors to compensate for the additional fuel supplied through the supply circuit you have created. Ultimately the oxygen sensor would trim the total fuel supplied to maintain stoichiometric mixture. I see it as a possible way to use an alternative fuel supply for lower overall cost per mile. Questions would still remain concerning the location, plumbing, and safety in a collision, when adding something like a propane bottle to your vehicle. I don't think it would be easy to make it cover all operating ranges of your engine, but when cruising at sustained higher speeds, adding a metered amount of propane or another fuel might be a viable option to just gasoline delivery. As far as a home brewed Direct Injection system, that's a serious stretch, since most DI systems have engines using higher compression to utilize the advantages of DI as far as the direct cooling of the combustion chamber by the fuel injected directly into the combustion chamber itself. Compressed Natural Gas might be another pathway, but then you have the issue of the CNG fuel containment vessel and the additional cost. Better vaporization of the propane could be accomplished by using some cooling system heat to preheat the propane, on it's way to the induction point. Sure would be nice if the same effort at slamming an idea would be directed more constructively. regards Mech |
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Can you say Natural Gas-Gasoline powered car? Some Propane or Natural Gas added to the system should work, as long as it is done properly. regards Mech |
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Suggesting that the average ecomodder would be capable of "modifying the compression ratio" then adding a means of direct injection of fuel into the combustion chamber, which would require some serious engineering and an additional passageway in the cylinder head, is far beyond anyone outside of a considerably competent machine shop and engineering expertise, that to this point has evaded the ability of many new car manufacturers.
That being said, it may actually come to a point where the existing spark plug hole could be used if a combination direct injector and spark plug mechanism could be designed and produced. Maybe something along this line. transonic combustion - Google Search regards Mech |
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Nothing new
It is funny how backwards the automotive industry has always been. Direct injection in a gasoline engine was used by Messerschmitt in WWII and is probably a lot older than that.
Fuel injection, the super charger, hemi head, and multiple valves per cylinder were all invented just after the turn of the 20th century. Air bags were invented in the 60's and were finally put in most cars in the 90's. |
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Possibly, but just adding direct injection without looking at the characteristics of the combustion chamber design, flame front propagation, as well as other aspects of the situation will probably not produce the best results and could produce nothing. It needs a systematic approach. If just slapping a set of different injectors in an engine would make a dramatic difference it would have already been done. Way beyond the average tinkerer. regards Mech |
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