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-   -   Volt may be dropped by GM (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/volt-may-dropped-gm-35406.html)

oil pan 4 07-24-2017 09:24 AM

Volt may be dropped by GM
 
Was watching HLN this morning and they were saying the volt and sonic may be dropped in favor of building more SUVs and pickups.

Stubby79 07-24-2017 10:59 AM

:rolleyes: if it turns out to be true. (just another reason for me to buy Japanese cars)

redpoint5 07-24-2017 12:04 PM

The story I read says it's among 6 sedans being considered for discontinuation. Even if they axe the Volt, it will be produced through 2022. The reasoning is that sedans are not popular now that gasoline is so cheap. Consumers are rushing to buy crossovers, SUVs, and trucks.

By the time they made the switch in production, which takes 4 years, gasoline prices will have likely shot back up. Seems the auto industry is always half a decade behind.

If Chevy cuts the Volt, I bet they would replace it with a similar crossover.

Here's the article.

ksa8907 07-24-2017 12:17 PM

A PHEV Equinox?

I do laugh a little at all the pickup trucks that people "tune" and put huge tires on with a lift. Just waiting for gas to hit $4/gal again... Even though i don't get very good mileage either.

rmay635703 07-24-2017 01:28 PM

After 10 years of volt hoax comments and hate

What do we expect, their making it into another minivan

vskid3 07-24-2017 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmay635703 (Post 545785)
What do we expect, their making it into another minivan

If only. At least minivans have sliding rear doors that kids can't open into other cars.

Can Chevy not make a PHEV car and a PHEV crossover? Maybe give the Volt some advertising so that people who aren't efficiency-nuts know that they exist?

jray3 07-24-2017 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmay635703 (Post 545785)
After 10 years of volt hoax comments and hate

What do we expect, their making it into another minivan

I don't follow. Many have begged for the Voltec drivetrain in a minivan, or at least a FWD "crossover" instead of a designed-for inefficiency SUV. If GM were to do this I'd give them due props.

Can't blame the automakers too much for following their customers. The sheeple want instant gratification, which leads to churn and transaction profits and more new car sales over time. Folks like the few here who buy and hold a car for hundreds of thousands of miles are not very desirable customers.

Dealers and automakers want folks who keep coming back for punishment. My dear old dad just experienced a critical engine failure on a dealer-maintained diesel Jeep with just under 60,000 miles on the clock. Since this happened just within the warranty period, he got a warranty fix, full blue book value on the trade, and felt good about buying brand new Dodge truck..... :eek:

S Keith 07-24-2017 08:35 PM

There is something wrong with me. Even if gas was $0.50/gallon, I'd still be driving my hybrids... :)

redpoint5 07-24-2017 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S Keith (Post 545795)
There is something wrong with me. Even if gas was $0.50/gallon, I'd still be driving my hybrids... :)

Yeah, you aren't infected with the "spend it 'till it's gone" disease that most other Americans have. Heck, most Americans even spend the money they don't have.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 07-25-2017 12:10 AM

Maybe the Volt didn't get that "halo" image that Toyota was able to manage for the Prius, so it would not really surprise me if GM eventually moves to fit its Voltec drivetrain into something with a more mainstream design, such as an eventual PHEV version for the Cruze. Unless they're planning something else, like a range-extender for the Bolt.

gone-ot 07-25-2017 02:22 PM

GM has been 'known' to "shoot themselves in the feet" on more than one occasion.

Fingie 07-25-2017 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Tele man (Post 545853)
GM has been 'known' to "shoot themselves in the feet" on more than one occasion.

i don't know a better way of saying this :rolleyes:

Natalya 07-26-2017 01:20 AM

Which automaker will be first to market with a PHEV or electric pickup truck?

I wish it would, but I don't think gas is going to $4/gallon unless a couple major oil producers go belly up because of low prices and it causes a supply chain shock.

Electric will replace gasoline and diesel. It's not if, but when. The main question is what does that transition look like. Batteries continue to improve in capacity and decrease in cost.

No one wants an ugly Nissan Leaf, and Tesla Model S is too expensive for mass market. The Tesla Model X, while not talked about recently, probably would have been a good indicator of the way things are going to go had it not been designed so differently from other SUVs.

A 200 mile electric SUV or a range-extended electric that costs the same as a Ford Explorer, whenever someone manages that, I think that will be the tipping point whereupon the traditional ICE-only stranglehold starts to crumble.

rmay635703 07-26-2017 07:57 AM

Workhorse or TSLA depending on timing

Ecky 07-26-2017 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Natalya (Post 545892)
Which automaker will be first to market with a PHEV or electric pickup truck?

Major issue with trucks is how inefficient the platforms are, so you end up needing massive (expensive) batteries.

oil pan 4 07-26-2017 09:50 PM

So far the hybrid concept hasn't really scaled up to SUV size well.
They get good city milage but get about the same or worse highway milage as compared to the gas only option.

rmay635703 07-26-2017 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ecky (Post 545953)
Major issue with trucks is how inefficient the platforms are, so you end up needing massive (expensive) batteries.

The Workhorse truck has a 60kwhr battery and an 80 mile range.

S Keith 07-28-2017 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Natalya (Post 545892)
Which automaker will be first to market with a PHEV or electric pickup truck?

GM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_S-10_EV

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 07-28-2017 11:24 PM

Those projects from the 90s were quite ambitious, but they wouldn't last too long without political support. Anyway, a plug-in hybrid truck would probably be more appealing to the average Joe than some all-electric one, since it could eventually also provide electric power to appliances, tools and as an emergency backup at home during power shortages.

Bill the Engineer 07-29-2017 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Tele man (Post 545853)
GM has been 'known' to "shoot themselves in the feet" on more than one occasion.

I was a pure Pontiac fan until GM abandoned that brand. Now I won't buy another GM car unless and until Mary Barra is gone. She was then and is now a Pontiac hater.

Prii Rule!

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 07-29-2017 01:44 PM

GM really had some issues with brand overlap, but the phaseout of the Kappa platform was worse than the retirement of the Pontiac brand.

Magician 08-28-2017 09:57 PM

gas prices...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by redpoint5 (Post 545771)
The story I read says it's among 6 sedans being considered for discontinuation. Even if they axe the Volt, it will be produced through 2022. The reasoning is that sedans are not popular now that gasoline is so cheap. Consumers are rushing to buy crossovers, SUVs, and trucks.

By the time they made the switch in production, which takes 4 years, gasoline prices will have likely shot back up. Seems the auto industry is always half a decade behind.

If Chevy cuts the Volt, I bet they would replace it with a similar crossover.

Here's the article.

Gas prices are highly unlikely to go up much over the next 10 years... I know people in the oil industry and they seem to think not very likely.. so many things have changed in the market favoring low pricing... especially technology.

I hypermile because I think it's enjoyable being a cheap skate. I don't buy all of the CO2 propaganda... I've seen so many predictions go awry by those idiots...

rmay635703 08-29-2017 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magician (Post 548417)
Gas prices are highly unlikely to go up much over the next 10 years... I know people in the oil industry and they seem to think not very likely.. so many things have changed in the market favoring low pricing... especially technology.

I hypermile because I think it's enjoyable being a cheap skate. I don't buy all of the CO2 propaganda... I've seen so many predictions go awry by those idiots...

Gas prices would be over $4 if we removed subsidies

As a country we feel the need to subsidize semi trucks, perhaps we need the will to push the issue?

Magician 08-29-2017 09:06 AM

Ok... well explain why diesel fuel is much cheaper to refine, but cost so much more.... I know the answer... but want to see if you can pull yourself together to put the correct answer out there without your political beliefs getting I the way.

oil pan 4 08-29-2017 10:46 AM

State and federal tax diesel more than gasoline.
In NM diesel is around 30 cents more per gallon, most of that is the states high diesel tax.
Before 2007 diesel was cheaper to refine, after the ULSD mandate and the cost of out fitting refineries with ULSD equipment, increase maintaince costs due to the nature of the rare earth catalyst used and supposedly the ULSD refinement is done at a higher temperature than before too so I don't know any more.

The same can be said about electric vehicles. With out handouts most electric vehicle models would die off.
Even with $4/gal gas a lot of people wouldn't be able to afford additional thousands upon thousands of dollars more the electric vehicles cost.

rmay635703 08-29-2017 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magician (Post 548435)
Ok... well explain why diesel fuel is much cheaper to refine, but cost so much more.... I know the answer... but want to see if you can pull yourself together to put the correct answer out there without your political beliefs getting I the way.

You should have asked why I would support gasoline when the refinery makes 1/3 less pollution to produce a gallon of diesel vrs a gallon of gasoline, and the refinery makes more pollution per gallon than the car burning it, lost opportunity I guess.

anyway

In the last 17 years gas has been cheaper than diesel 2/3's of the time, meaning around here it's sometimes cheaper than gasoline

Explain why when you graph gas prices vrs diesel that when gas prices are higher diesel is usually lower and when gas prices are lower diesel goes higher?
A simple Graph shows the behavior around here like clockwork. Diesel high = gas low and Visa versa
(Comparitely over the last 17 years here at least)

Quote:

Originally Posted by oil pan 4 (Post 548444)
State and federal tax diesel more than gasoline.
In NM diesel is around 30 cents more per gallon, most of that is the states high diesel tax.

The same can be said about electric vehicles. With out handouts most electric vehicle models would die off.
Even with $4/gal gas a lot of people wouldn't be able to afford additional thousands upon thousands of dollars more the electric vehicles cost.

I guess that explains why TSLA does so well selling $100,000 plus vehicles that make the $7500 look like chump change.

Magician 08-29-2017 12:27 PM

Nice explanation!... and now one can easily determine from your points that government has driven up costs of diesel... strange since it's a much more efficient fuel... and much safer.

redpoint5 08-29-2017 01:25 PM

Yeah, I bought into the peak oil hype a couple years ago and believed petroleum prices would skyrocket, but recently I changed my opinion.

Sure, peak oil will happen, but alternatives will ease the transition, and there are exotic oil extraction methods that can help control costs, such as fracking, shale, and deep water rigs.

Xist 08-30-2017 02:15 PM

I often say that giving customers what they want is usually good business, but occasionally automakers can convince consumers to want what they give.

Another reason we are not their target audience is because many of us do not purchase new vehicles. We do not purchase vehicles that start falling apart when the warranty ends, we choose ones that last far longer.

I save as much gas as I can because I have better use for my money than sending it to rich Canadian Sheikhs, but I still have not had any money left over...

People insist automatic transmissions are more efficient than manual ones when they usually do worse in the real world. We compared a Camry and a Toyota SUV and Toyota did not seem to provide any incentive to purchase the sedan.

If the SUV costs the same and delivers comparable fuel economy, they are slacking on the sedan.

I do not know where the profit is in there.

Xist 08-30-2017 07:37 PM

Don't they also have light truck wheels?

My forester was a light truck. I figured AWD and the clearance meant something. My sister calls her crossover an SUV, but the Traverse is built on a modified Malibu frame, and while AWD was available, she did not choose it for her soccer mom car.

She complains about needing to purchase truck tires.

oil pan 4 08-30-2017 11:31 PM

Tesla makes toys for the rich and they have a monopoly on those toys so of course they are going to sell a lot of them.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 08-30-2017 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 548538)
If the SUV costs the same and delivers comparable fuel economy, they are slacking on the sedan.

I honestly don't like sedans so much, and many times an SUV is a gross exercise of excess. Many people would rather get a station-wagon if they're willing to get something more practical and versatile than a sedan, but it was just easier for the automakers to drop SUVs and not have to comply to emissions and fuel-efficiency policies nearly as strict as it would be for a good ol' wagon.

Xist 09-05-2017 10:34 PM

Subaru and Volvo keep making wagons and there are sports wagons. Even Ferrari has a wagon, hatchback, or something, but I see far more SUVs or crossovers than wagons.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 09-06-2017 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 549143)
there are sports wagons

Even though they might retain a smaller loading capacity compared to old-school wagons, they're still by a far margin more practical than a sedan as they make it easier to load and unload.


Quote:

but I see far more SUVs or crossovers than wagons.
It's that one-size-fits-all approach that ends up benefitting more the automakers who are able to charge more for something that not necessarily justifies the higher price tags than the car buyers who often have to give up some handling advantage inherent to wagons or the better accessibility of a minivan.


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