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-   -   VW TDI vs. Gas comparison (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/vw-tdi-vs-gas-comparison-6184.html)

guudasitgets 11-26-2008 10:31 AM

VW TDI vs. Gas comparison
 
I did some intresting figuring, took the prices of both VW jettas, TDI and the SE with a gas engine, plugged in the base price of both cars, and drove them for ten years. I usually drive 20,000mi a year so for the ten year time span here's what I found out. The cost of gas here now is $1.79 per gal, diesel is 2.79 per gal. Using VW's figures the TDI toal cost, car+fuel would be $35,940 for the ten year timespan. The gas Jetta would cost $32,264. No savings buying a diesel there. So I went double the mileage, 400k. The TDI would cost$49,890, the gas Jetta $44,609. These are just using the highway miles rating, the city would be much worse as the diffrence is only 9mpg. I did this because spring is going to be new car time and I have to start looking into a replacement for my Explorer and I'll probably get a car next and run the "Exploder" into the ground seeing as it's pretty much worthless now. I had done this because there are other SUV's that are starting to put diesels in them, thats the other avenue of choice. I guess there really is no longer an advantage cost wise when you figure that they cost more to begin with plus the fuel is a dollar more per gallon.

p.s. said Explorer is just above the tail of the race car in my avitar

theunchosen 11-26-2008 11:29 AM

This is entirely true. The new TDI gets a tax credit or something for being a super efficient vehicle(?), but the increased gas mileage never covers the 1$ more for diesel(unless someone fabricates crises that truckers refuse to buy into then gas and diesel are the same.
The reason for this is oil companies don't want to swing all towards diesel because then their gasoline is worthless(sort of). The reason they avoid the swing is you can't just produce Diesel its a byproduct of gasoline(so is kerosene). The oil companies have a strong desire to keep the market perfectly balanced to maximize profit.
<edit> If gas prices go up to say 4 a gallon like they were the numbers come out closer. But it's never under, except when they jack up gas and freeze diesel in said "crises."
</edit>

Daox 11-26-2008 11:33 AM

Well, I don't think anyone can say that the price of diesel will forever be more than gasoline. Depending on what happens in the future it could again be below the price of gas some day.

How do diesel prices compare in non-US countries?

guudasitgets 11-26-2008 11:54 AM

I don't know about other countries but I watched a report on refining process and now with the new clean diesel fuel their saying that it now costs more to refine diesel than it does gas. so the days of cheaper, "dirty diesel" apparently is now gone forever. Hence the shift for us Ecomodders is probably a gas engine, for used cars to tinker with anyway. The manufacturers are looking at diesels because it still takes less crude to make a gallon of diesel.

theunchosen 11-26-2008 12:08 PM

The emissions crap crucifies diesels in everyway. they put huge restraints on emissions that drive down their efficiency and then restrictions on the diesel itself making it more expensive.

Some emissions policies are idiotic. They reduce emissions everything equal, but they reduce MPG enough that you come out in the same place and its just more expensive to drive. If you instead put the money to refining ICE tech it'd be better spent. Making ICE 1% more efficient would reduce emissions so much more than emissions standards because there are tons of engines that do not have to conform to EPA but everyone wants better efficiency.

<edit>Most countries do not follow EPA(China India) but they would definitely follow a more efficient engine.
Even Japan has more relaxed standards. Which is most JDM vehicles have higher MPG and HP than their USA, EU counterparts.
</edit>

guudasitgets 11-26-2008 12:19 PM

unchosen, I aggree, and it crucifys every motor, not just diesels

theunchosen 11-26-2008 12:24 PM

yeah. . .but diesels get it far worse.

if you disagree. . .take out your exhaust package. ALL of it. run all your pipes together right outside the engine run that one pipe straight along to the back of your car and then into the air.

Tell me what your mpg increase(or hp) and then tell me what your emissions increase was.
. . . I reemed out some DMV types in GA for trying to ticket me for exhaust. I don't live or have the car registered in their jurisdiction so they had to back down.

some_other_dave 11-26-2008 02:04 PM

When gas prices were at their peak around here, regular unleaded was about $4/gallon, and #2 diesel was about $4.30. That makes the TDI a lot more competitive.

Even if the "delta" stays at a dollar per gallon, $4 gasoline versus $5 diesel starts to make things much closer.

-soD

tasdrouille 11-26-2008 02:30 PM

You should take note that the EPA values for the 2009 TDI are way underestimated. You can have a look over at TDIclub.com in the fuel economy forum there is a thread just on this subject.

It would be foolish to plan 10 years of fuel usage based on the current cost of gasoline vs diesel. The higher the price of gas, the lower the % difference between the two fuel. The added cost for usld does not scale up with prices, it gets diluted.

After 10 years the TDI will be worth more by roughly the premium you paid to get the diesel.

And the diesel is just a lot more fun to drive. People buy hp, but they drive torque.

Duffman 11-26-2008 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theunchosen (Post 74932)
The emissions crap crucifies diesels in everyway. they put huge restraints on emissions that drive down their efficiency and then restrictions on the diesel itself making it more expensive.

Some emissions policies are idiotic. They reduce emissions everything equal, but they reduce MPG enough that you come out in the same place and its just more expensive to drive. If you instead put the money to refining ICE tech it'd be better spent. Making ICE 1% more efficient would reduce emissions so much more than emissions standards because there are tons of engines that do not have to conform to EPA but everyone wants better efficiency.

<edit>Most countries do not follow EPA(China India) but they would definitely follow a more efficient engine.
Even Japan has more relaxed standards. Which is most JDM vehicles have higher MPG and HP than their USA, EU counterparts.
</edit>

I suggest you do a little research into what you speak because you are more than a little off base in more than one area. Engine manufacturers do not employ retards in their engineering departments, if their strategies did not work, they would simply do nothing instead.


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