What is the best vehicle for commuting?
 

I would start with a Civic, Insight, Corolla, or Prius with 100,000 - 200,000 miles. If you want to make the case for a Mitsubishi Mirage, I will accept it. If you insist that it is a TAHOE HYBRID I will ignore you. If you write two pages explaining that it is a semi I am going to need a tl;dr. If you recommend a motorcycle I will hear you out. Hopefully saddlebags would provide adequate storage.

I do not know how many miles I drove in 2016, but I can figure out how many miles I logged here. However, I figured that I drove 13,000 miles for work, and was able to deduct 8,000, which reduced my tax burden by about $500. I looked up gas prices in Phoenix and they were around $2 a gallon, so I spent $600 or less.

Hopefully less because I always try to go to the cheapest station, use discounts, etc.

Someone reached out to me with full-time job openings in Arizona, New Mexico, and North Carolina. This was through Indeed and I could only say Yay or Nay. I feel that too many people are unwilling to move for a full-time job in their field, grad school, etc., and they limit their own future, but I feel that I need to do the best that I can where I am.

The only job they have in Arizona is in Marana, north of Tucson, and when she went to tell me the pay (I told her that I would mention it in my Facebook groups), she said the information was unavailable. I looked up the school district and they are offering $12.58 for a job that requires a degree. This is the worst pay that I have seen by almost a dollar, but the minimum wage her went up to $12 this year, so you can move for a job in your field that would pay $12.58 * 8 * 180 = $18,115.20 or you could stay and find a full-time job that paid $12 x 8 x 250 = $24,000.

Hopefully you enjoy the job in your field more. Whenever I go to the dollar store or Walmart I ask the cashier if that is the best job they ever had and they always respond "Yeah right!" or something similar.

I posted in a speech Facebook group asking about low school pay and someone responded that she worked for $14.12 for an entire year. The thing is, my agency pays $45 an hour in Tucson, Flagstaff, and the Phoenix area, you just need to maintain a caseload, drive from client to client, and deal with cancellations. I have gone back and forth between home health and school and it seems like I always end up earning the same.

A woman complained "But the gas in home health....truly saps that money" and I responded that it depended on what you drove. Gas was not a concern in my Civic, but I know an SLPA that drives a full-sized pickup 50,000 miles a year, although she does not say how much is for work.
She spends $5,000 a year on gas.

The lady responded "I have a Jeep - it's pretty good on gas, but it's no Prius." and I stopped reading.

The 2019 Jeep Compass FWD 4 cyl, 2.4 L, Manual 6-speed is rated 23/32 and the 2019 Jeep Renegade 2WD 4 cyl, 1.3 L, Automatic 9-speed is rated 24/32.

Obviously, you would be better off with a cheap beater. They very well would be more reliable, too! :)

US News and World Reports says the Compass would probably start at at least $22,000 and: https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/jeep/compass

They say the Renegade costs $22,275 and: https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/jeep/renegade

What idiot buys a vehicle that is better off the road than on it for commuting?! Buy a cheap beater and leave the ornament at home! By the way, are these actual Jeeps, or rebadged Chryslers\Fiats?

They may be intensely concerned with what they imagine impresses other random, unknown motorists. :confused: I used to work with a guy with a 120 mile commute, of course done solo in an empty full size V8 4x4 pickup. I ran through the "get a beater like mine" scenario and it would have saved him ****tons of money but he wasn't having it.

People's vehicle choices are intensely personal. A friend of mine who probably has heard more of my anti-SUV rants than anyone recently totaled her SUV. She always claimed she only had it because that is what her ex-husband gave her but she wanted something more economical. What do you suppose she's been looking at/test driving? SUVs. I don't want to hear it, and it looks like she doesn't want to hear what I say either.

P.S. My best commuter vehicle was my bicycle. But then I made sure, when house shopping, to buy within bicycle commuting radius from work, not 120 miles away. :rolleyes:

People do what they want [and suffer the consequences]. People make excuses to justify their poor decisions, but I do not have time for people who want sympathy for the consequences for decisions they do not regret.

The Volt is optimal for my commute . . . well, technically my first Volt was since my commute was at the outer limits of its EV range.

I live a little over 19 miles from work so I can make the round trip on EV charge alone, but even if I need to drive the car out of town it still makes more sense than taking my wife's Explorer since the Volt gets 40 plus mpg running the ICE. And I've charged for free at work for a couple of years now!

At one time we were contemplating moving way closer to work, at which point I would have just ditched the car altogether and used a bicycle, but it didn't pan out so I have the next best thing

I gave up trying to make sense of people's hilariously ridiculous life choices a long time ago.
Here in redneck territory (central Florida) I work with a bunch of guys with close to that commute who all drive big trucks. Two of them drove F150's at least 40-50 miles each way for over a decade, including the construction downturn when gas was over 4 bucks a gallon. One just traded his in for another brand new F150 and the other just traded his in for a new Jeep 4-door.

*Not that I have anything against trucks! I own a 2000 Chevy 3500 myself, but I only fire it up to tow a lawn trailer, boat trailer or to load it down with plywood or drywall or something too bulky or heavy to fit in the Explorer

I have been a Chevy guy for a long time. Wouldn't disconsider an Aveo or a Sonic as an option for a commuter.

I'm at 282,000 on my Cobalt with minimal issues. The 2010 Cobalt (auto) I got 40 mpg on the last tank before I sold it with over 100,000 miles on it. Had BCM replaced was the only issue it had. ($600). Owned both since 2x,xxx miles. One salvage title from Hail, 2010 from front end collision.

My most recent purchase the 2016 Cruise Limited is a nice car, 17,000 miles for $13,200 or so, warranty to 100,000. 43 mpg indicated over 70 miles driving home from dealer with some city mixed in.

The Elantra purchase was very similar also with 100,000 warranty, 46 mpg on a short tank last time I drove it.

Got to make it to work to get paid.

I'd rather make payments for 4 years and have something I know and can trust for 10.

Yeah you definitely need a hybrid tahoe. Hahaha.
But it sounds like a hybrid car that can get 44mpg without even trying is the way to go.
Crazy drivers in NM will hit and run on you just because they don't have insurance, motorcyclesare death traps.

.

Your example is $22K. An Arcimoto Evergreen is $20K

https://ecomodder.com/forum/member-f...0-124-1188.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-PCH7RGCEL...05609472_o.jpg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-85XqqHgHK...53099264_o.jpg
Just A Car Guy: Harley Davidson didn’t offer hard bags for their motorcycles until 1952. “Royalite Plastic” bags first appeared on the 1952 “K” model Harleys and then on Big Twin models in 1954.

Ninety percent of the cost of a Jeep for a two-seater with a 100-mile range sounds a bit high.

The combined EPA fuel economy for those Jeeps is 26 MPG. Gas is currently $3 a gallon in Phoenix, so if she drives 13,000 miles a year for work, it would take 500 gallons, and cost $1,500.

How much to drive the Evergreen the same distance? :)

Crap.

The warranty is the same on a Fit, but it is a Honda. You will be okay.

Do you pay 5¢ or 10¢ per Kilowatt-hour? I have no idea how much an MPGe is in kilowatts.

edit:
Nevermind
173.7/33.7 is 5.1543.... something. Kilowatt-hours per mile?
'$0.30 per KwH' is 6x 5¢.

In my opinion the best commuter is the one that fits the requirements with minimum extras. I.E. small car (hybrid, electric, gas, doesn't matter, just whatever you can afford). Of course bicycle if possible, but that can be hard for a lot of commutes.

I understand not everyone has the same viewpoint or capability (owning multiple cars, whether space or money issues), but I have a vehicle for different needs (kinda like Cowmeat). I have my small commuter, but also own a van that I can use for getting large materials, appliances, towing, etc. I also get tired of driving the same thing all the time and like to mix it up, but I don't want to be one of those people who never hold onto a car for very long.

I think the hybrid tahoe is aimed at the average consumer. Its like trying to take my van and car and smoosh them together. V8 makes for fun driving, but the hybrid means it can get better mileage when you don't need the power of the v8. While I see the desire for cars like that I would rather have something that is the best at what I use it for instead of moderate at everything. If you are using the extra interior volume everyday it makes sense.

Tahoe_Hybrid: Don't take this as a personal attack, opinions are like buttholes (pg-13 :D) everyone has one. Unless you have a reason to get a different car just roll with it. I drove a van when I could only have one car and just had fun with driving it. I am always interested to see what I can get out of a car in regards to performance and fuel economy, but that isn't really the deciding factor when I buy a car because I don't do much driving anyway (average is less than 4k per year with all cars added together).

They got a lot of nuclear.
If you could make electric work a bolt might be good.
Don't get a leaf, the heat there will fry the battery.

5 miles per kwh is way too optimistic for highway driving. Expect around 4, depending on speed and temperature.

freebeards, obviously. Always lowercase.

https://www.electricitylocal.com/sta...zona/show-low/

There's very few reasons I wouldn't accept as worthwhile rationalizations to purchase a particular vehicle, as long as people are being honest about them. You can't say you bought a Land Rover for fuel economy and reliability, for example; unless you're very lazy, gullible, and ignorant.

Regarding work; priority #1 is to provide for yourself. Once that's covered, pursuing your passion is the key to success. We're good at what we're interested in, and leveraging interest is often the best way to serve both you and the community. That said, occupations like professional gamer are highly competitive. Certain occupations require being the top 1% of 1% of 1% to even make a modest living...

I don't know why speech therapy would be priced much lower than other therapies, like physical therapy. Perhaps the occupation isn't as tightly controlled by a cartel as others? Can you just be an independent speech therapist? I would, and I'd depreciate the cost of a new vehicle over 7 years or whatever the government regs are on that, and deduct mileage, and a laptop...

I commute 60 miles a day. I have worked this job for the last 15 years. So I have had many commuter cars. I am a mechanic for a major electric utility and I have owned my home and property for 30 years. I am close to retirement so I am not moving.
I enjoy playing with cars but I don’t have time to work on a beater. If I can’t make it reliable I move on. I drove various Metros for about 8 years. My adventures were chronicled on Geometroforum during those years. It was good to drive a 40+ mpg vehicle during the $4+/gallon days. I had lots of fun with the Metros but they were getting tired and I was ready for a nicer ride.
I also towed the Metros behind my motorhome when vacationing.
So nicer car, good fuel economy and can flat tow behind my motorhome. My car dealer friend said come look at this Saturn LW300 he had just bought and it had towbar brackets. I had never paid attention to Saturns and didn’t know much about them. Research time.
Yes you can flat tow all Saturns and that was part of their sales pitch. So I bought the wagon and started driving it. I stopped by Roadmaster in Vancouver Washington and had them make and send the missing pieces to the towbar mounts on the front of my car. I then shopped for a used Stowmaster 5000 towbar and found a used one in Portland for a fraction of the new price. I can now tow my wagon behind my motorhome.
L300 Saturns get in the upper 20s mpg and this was a fair example of the car, it was a little rough but my first one.
I really wanted another stick shift since all the Metros were sticks. The L series Saturn was available with a stick but only with the 2.2L 4 cylinder not the V-6. So I started to look for a nice L200/5 speed car, I didn’t care if it was a wagon or a sedan. The stick shifts turned out to pretty rare. So I bought and repaired the engines on several L200/Automatics before I found my car. The towbar brackets bolt on so I could always tow whatever I drove back and forth to work.
I even bought a few just for parts, I bought a rollover for $100 just for the engine. In fact that is the engine I have been driving for the last three years in my stick shift car.
I learned a lot about the trim level options and what else uses the same parts as these cars. Saab was bought by GM back in the 90s so the 9-5 and the early 9-3 use the same basic chassis as this Saturn. The late 9-3 is an Epsilon chassis but uses the same 4 cylinder engine and transmissions as the L. The wheels fit so I have some nice 16” Saab wheels on my Saturn.
My stick shift car is the high line leather sunroof with almost all the options. I paid $400.00 for it with 200,000 miles and a bad engine. New clutch and after a couple years new struts , a little low and an alignment. I love it and it gets 30 mpg all day long. It is a medium sized sedan with a big trunk and it is quiet on the road. Lots of air bags, antilock brakes, traction control, ice cold A/C, nice leather.
My point is since you can work on it yourself and you seem to like Hondas, find one you can live with and give it a try. Hondas hold their value quite well so if you don’t like it move on until you find what Fits. Sorry I couldn’t resist.
Thanks for listening
Andy

EVTV have a rule of thumb that involves watts, pounds and miles. Estimates will converge around a one-ton vehicle.
An interesting factoid, potentially useful.

I'm trying to get myself into a 1990 Metro. :) Leather and sunroof for $400? :thumbup:

If you drive 75mph you're not going to see 5 miles per kwh in something with tennis shoe aerodynamics like a leaf or bolt. That's all there is to it.

At 11 cents per kwh that is some pretty cheap power.

I do not know what that district pays for other therapies. It is probably similar, if not the same. I posted about it in a speech therapy Facebook group and a lady complained about a district offering her $18.50 an hour.

My first job paid $37 an hour, but I only had six clients. My second job paid a little better and I averaged 13 hours a week. The state pays about as well in Show Low as anywhere else, much better than the Phoenix area, but my clients are usually closer here than they were in Phoenix, without traffic.

Some lady responded "If anyone is looking for home health speech, Phoenix area, I can pay 55.00 per home visit SLPA" to my post about the school paying $12.58. I do not have any idea why she put this as the fourteenth comment in someone else's post instead of making her own post.

I found one agency paying $22 an hour to start and another offering $25+, but a number of places pay at least $40 an hour. My first employer advertised $46 as a W2 employee. We are usually 1099 contractors.

To truly go rogue you would need to be an SLP. It is crazy how much the state pays for therapy. Until I saw that lady's comment my agency had the best advertised pay that I had ever seen, but still kept half for overhead. When I become an SLP I will receive a nice raise, but if I started my own agency I would earn double.

[Not to brag but...] twice what I'm paying.

I recently picked up one of these for commuting. So far I've averaged 55 mpg without any attempt at economy.

https://www.totalmotorcycle.com/wp-c...0a.jpg?d=1&i=1

No you didn't! It is not in your garage! :)

I'm interested in hearing the pros and cons of having that third wheel.

It leans, so is there any increased stability, or just frontal area, complexity, and various types of friction?

"Electronic safety features bolster the inherent stability of the Delta-trike design to make the MP3 as safe as possible..."
"The dual front wheels and sensitive suspension maintains its grip on the road, even under adverse conditions."
"Piaggio graced the MP3 with an Acceleration Slip Regulation feature."
https://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles...-ar181514.html

Does that impress anyone or is it just jargon? :)

They say it is probably a bit under $9,000.

That's something 'without any attempt' includes?

None of my motorcycles are in my virtual garage. I have 4 now:

1976 Kawasaki KZ400
1979 Kawasaki KZ400
2009 Piaggio MP3 500ie
2011 BMW R1200RT

Pros:
Safety. Two wheels in the front give a much larger factory of safety. When the front wheel of a motorcycle loses grip the front end washes out, you crash, and it happens in a blink of the eye. Mortals can sometime save it when upright under braking but only MotoGP gods can consistently save the front when it loses traction in a corner. 3 of my 4 crashes on the road have come from losing the front in adverse conditions.

With two front wheels you just have more grip to start with due to the extra contact patch. So it corners on rails in the dry. When one of the front tires hits something that causes it to lose traction the load and grip shifts to the other wheel and you continue on with a little twitch in the bars. If both wheels lose traction the front slides across the slippery spot and then regains traction on the other side. The distance between the front wheels keeps the front from tucking and washing out instantly and you have much more time to catch it. You can still lose the front but it is much less likely.

Cities are full of slippery bits: gravel, painted lines, manhole covers, oil or gas spills, etc.

I test rode one when it first came out and I was young and stupid. The dealer said "you can't crash it" so of course I tried. I went around hitting every patch of gravel I could drifting the front through corners.

Cons:

• It looks funny. It does't look like a motorcycle "should" and that is a big deal for a lot of motorcyclists.
• Cost. The Piaggio has always been about 1/3 more than a similar scooter and the Yamaha Niken continues the trend. That kept me from getting one for 10 years. I picked this one up for $3000 with 5,400 miles on the clock.
• Weight. The MP3 weighs almost a much as my BMW but doesn't feel heavy due to weight distribution. The 3-wheeled Yamaha Niken is 90lbs heavier than the Tracer 900 it is based on.
• You can only lean to 40 degrees (not a problem for mortals.)

It still rides and feels like a motorcycle. It is narrow enough to lane-split like a motorcycle. It also has a gimmicky tilt-lock that allows you to come to a stop and lock the front so you don't have to put your feet down. That system alone adds 50 lbs!

Fascinating machine.

Of the 3 times I remember losing front grip, one was on a track when an instructor was braking during an acceleration area. I grabbed too much front brake (should have steered instead). Another time was due to not heeding a "bump" caution sign, catching air, and my suspension not being settled as I entered a corner. The final time I can remember, I was taking a 25 MPH freeway onramp at something near to 100 MPH and the front end was at the grip limit, but I was balanced enough that it held up. So, 2 crashes and a save... I was reckless in my youth before I learned that pushing the limits is best enjoyed on the race track.

Regarding the 40 degree lean angle; it might be a limiting factor for me on the streets, and would certainly be one on the track.

For those unfamiliar with the physics, the lean angle is proportional to the lateral G-force of the turn. That means a given lean angle corresponds to a given lateral G-force, regardless if someone is making a tighter but slower corner, or if they are taking a wide but fast corner.

https://www.bikebd.com/wp-content/up...safe-limit.jpg

https://www.visordown.com/sites/defa...es/5/58434.jpg

As an aside to this aside, the actual angle the bike leans can be different than the effective lean angle. When the rider positions their weight inside of the turn, the effective lean angle is greater than the actual lean angle because they have shifted the center of gravity. If the rider was sitting upright, the bike would have to be leaned over even more.

A person leaning outside of a corner exaggerates the lean angle, forcing the bike closer to the ground than necessary (and scraping their pegs in the process).

https://motovlog.com/attachments/bac...nqb4-jpg.2395/

One of my wrecks was due to not leaning off the bike enough in a corner, and my exhaust struck the red/white curbing on the race track.

I've noticed, especially in pics, that street riders tend to lean away from the turn, tipping the bike over far more than necessary.

I've noticed mostly cruisers going so slow you can't even see the bike is leaned at all. :P

Probably mostly inexperienced kids leaning wrong on the sport bikes. It's natural to feel uneasy about leaning inside a corner because we're used to bicycles that at low speed will tip over.

My tires wear out the centers before anything else from street riding. I've wondered if I forced them to ride on the edges if they would wear more evenly and perhaps last longer.

40 degrees is enough for the MP3 due to the nature of scooters. With the CVT integrated into the swingarm the machine is scraping hard parts before it runs out of lean angle. I plan on taking off the centerstand to get a bit more lean angle.

The Niken has 45 degrees or lean angle.
https://www.bennetts.co.uk/-/media/b...FA3CE3CA03F510

Bennetts has a great write-up on the Niken and addresses the lean angle like this:

Q: Hang on, so what happens if you plough into a corner and you want 48° of lean to make the exit? Will you just run wide?

A: Not necessarily.
If you’re at 45° of lean carrying too much speed (i.e. you need more lean) you have two options, both of which are surprisingly intuitive. You can either brake – the NIKEN has so much excess front grip it can manage braking while leaning and simply slows down, but holds the line – braking and steering forces are separated, much like BMW’s K-series.
Your other, more fun, option is to gas it up and powerslide the back end, oversteering and shortening the corner. This sounds and feels dramatic, but with traction control on minimum, or off, it’s easier than you think...

Reviews are here:
https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocia...tions-answered
https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocia...w-final-report

I would love a Niken (It is the same weight as my MP3!) but I’m not a buyer at $16,000. I also agree with the author that Yamaha missed the mark with the Niken. It either needs a windscreen, cruise control, heat grips, a better seat, and bags to be a touring bike or it been built on the MT-10 chassis with 160 hp to be a sport bike. Either choice would have helped justify the price.

I just hope we don’t have another Yamaha GTS1000 with the Niken. I bike with a unique design with clear benefits that gets scrapped after a couple years due to the price.

That appeals to a VW Beetle owner, but reminds me that a single drive wheel in the rear can't do torque vectoring like an electric front-wheel drive reverse trike can.

Once again I wish that I knew what happened to my ex while riding her Spyder, if nothing else to see how this would handle the same situation, but maybe wearing a helmet would have made a difference, too.

For long commutes I drove a used Corolla 5 speed. For ten miles or less I like a 3 speed bicycle. Because of the hills here I have an 18 speed bike but use the center range much like the 3 speed geared 36/18 T around town. I am adding a fairing to reduce drag.