What car makers *should* be doing!
 

Hello y'all,

I want to try to list steps that car makers could/should take to improve the fuel efficiency. The most obvious would be to mold the plastic on the front of the vehicle to be smooth and round, with grill openings that are sized (and placed) only as required to cool the engine. Similar to the original VW Passat:
http://www.mmstudios.org/ninja-fake/vw-passat.jpg
...or the original Ford Taurus:
http://is.rely.net/2-55-16934-l-GWSG...OFc7nofJlA.jpg
Sealing all the seams and joints (with gaskets or backing flanges) in the high pressure areas of the vehicle.

I'll add more later, when I have more time.

I vote for smooth underbelly trays.
With access panels for maintenance.
:thumbup:

How about not selling econocars that cruise at 3500rpm on the highway? I could happily double the 5th gear ratio in my protege5.

NeilBlanchard -

I agree. That looks like the 1988-1993 Third Generation Passat. I consider that era to be very "aero-friendly" in terms of car design, aka below headlight grills and such.

As Unheard pointed out, the Kia Ceed is an excellent example of what needs to be done and captures the "low hanging fruit" that we are all so fond of :

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ding-4640.html

CarloSW2

I agree with the aerodynamics. The under belly tray is also a good idea. Fender skirts for the win!

All new cars should have instant built in MPG units (like higher line models do now) and like Ford did it years ago on a truck, they should have an optional vacuum gauge with a red/green zone.

Tire pressure monitors really suck, but they do let a driver know of an inflation problem. This is already required by law for new cars anyway, but a monitor that tells you the air pressure in each tire would be great!

Forget the honkin' 16"-22" rims and wide tires! Lets bring back the skinny tire! I'm not talking about Metro wheels on an SUV, but a tire and rim size proportioned to the vehicle.

Optional switches or programmable system that allow the driver to turn the A/C compressor on or off and other accessories like Daytime Running Lights, autolocks, entry illumination, "sealt belt minder", etc as desired. Cars being sold to the general public cannot have a "kill switch", "Alternator cutout", etc because the general public are stupid.

I would also love to see the return of the diesel here in America.

mmmm... most of the ones I wanted to say have already been covered:

- transmission gear ratios
- aerodynamic front molding/design
- underbelly smoothing
- on-board FE feedback system

I think some car makers are doing these, but not for every car. I believe it was Mercedes who modded their C-class down to a 0.25 Cd:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...oday-4736.html

It's amazing when you look at the EPA site and go to diesels and click on 1985.

Compare Diesels Side-by-Side

Every U.S. company offered diesels at every level. From the Chevette to the Eldorado. Almost every brand for sale here offered some kind of diesel in cars, trucks or both.

OMG! The Cadillac Fleetwood got better mileage than the Mercedes 300D!

What happened to all these cars & trucks?

i second this, some vehicles need a 7th gear. my dads mini cooper s runs so high cruising on the highway.

Nobody wanted a stinkin' diesel especially after the GM 5.7L turned out so unreliable.

despite its size, the cooper S is really a sports car. An economical one yes, but still a sports car. I can understand having tight ratios in that. In the base model, however, the ratios should be higher. I've always wanted a 6th gear in my protege5.

well thats true, my sisters non s (regular cooper) gets high 30s low 40s no problem. its just that in his S it seems the highest gear (6th) just isnt high enough, not really any kind of overdrive. but a sports car it most positivly is :)

...except the nerds that buy German cars.

I wish I was a nerd with a diesel German car. In particular, a 5-cylinder Mercedes would be fantastic. They'll run with a thrown rod; as well as a whole bunch of crap thrown into the crankcase:
"So, instead of crushing said car, it was decided to take the car, remove the oil cap, run the engine at WOT, while the other team captains dropped items into the engine. Things that were put into the poor engine included New England Clam Chowder, milk-o-magnesia, fabric softener, Heiniken Beer, a loose bolt, cleanser, and other things. "

24 Hours Of Lemons: People's Curse Fails To Kill Diesel Benz, Once-Angry Mob Has Change Of Heart

Not terribly efficient, but nigh-unkillable.

Hiya,

Some more items:

Tire pressure monitor.

Average & "instant" MPG displays, that are on all the time. (The xD uses the same display for the odometer, the two trip odometers, average MPG, instant MPG -- way too many things on one display! You have to toggle through them with a button that could not be a bigger pain to press...)

Fully ducted cooling system, with the intake down low on the front, and the exhaust in a low pressure zone; minimizing the size of the radiator and the reducing the drag as much as possible.

Throttle control that maintains even throttle in a user-set speed range, with minimal throttle increases to maintain the speed in that range.

Higher gearing with 6-7 speeds (smaller engines need more gears to work efficiently); or CVT transmissions.

Video cameras and screens in place of side mirrors.

Efficient and effective fresh air flow through the vehicle, with intakes on a high pressure area, and exhaust vent(s) out the back of the vehicle into the low pressure wake zone, to reduce drag as much as possible.

Automatic engine shut off and start up; at least with CVT (or automatic) transmissions -- and possibly with standard shifts, based on having both the clutch and the brake applied?

Lean burn in low vacuum conditions.

Store hot coolant in a vacuum insulated tank, to speed up warm-up time; a la what the Prius does.

Coat all the window glass to exclude as much heat as possible.

Make A/C on the defrost setting optional.

Tighten up wheel openings, and always use aerodynamically designed wheels/covers, with rear wheel skirts (at least optional).

Make roof racks removable. Years ago, I saw a "papoose" add-on storage system that locked onto the back of the car, with a single caster wheel to support the weight -- it tucked completely into the air flow behind the car; and it would be a great way to add storage space when needed; that did not affect how you drove very much.

For new 4-cylinder engine designs, the crankshaft could be split with a hydraulic coupling that can automatically disengage two cylinders completely; saving all the pumping and friction losses, for situations when 2 cylinders are enough to provide the required torque to move the vehicle.

Or, make every vehicle with a plug-in electric w/ serial hybrid ICE drive train.

i want:

plug in hybrid with regen braking
engine waste heat recycling -what ever technology is best.
instant mpg and trip mpg computer
engine block heater
boat tail

Yep. That truly bad GM auto-diesel would often fail just starting it up cold. It pretty much single handedly destroyed the domestic diesel movement in the US.

Other reasons diesels did not catch on in the 80's were because they were woefully underpowered (since very few had turbos), you really did have to go to truck stops to get fuel (few service stations had diesel pumps), and diesels were NOISY! None of these things apply anymore and I would love to see more diesels.

I had an 81 diesel rabbit and I wish I had it back! 50+ mpg driving full throttle most of the time.

I think the perfect diesel was that VW Passat at the top of the page - it was available as a diesel and got 45 mpg.

diesel engines went trough a huge evolution the last 20 years, current diesels are much like pertrol engines to drive, although they're very complex, so maintenance costs could be an issue, but in terms of economy and performance they rule.

i totally love cars from the 80's, it seemed aerodynamics where put high on the agenda back than, and designers finally decided to do away with obsolete grills on favor of flat aerodynamics nose panels... wheel arches where shaped for tire clearance and ninimal aerodynamic intrusion

ford sierra 1982 Cd 0.34 (later the car got a more conventional grill, but the big headlights still dominated the front...)
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5...a_05_08_05.jpg

citroen ax 1986 Cd 0.31 (this one will appeal to metro fans!)
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5...ay/ModelAX.jpg

opel omega 1986 Cd 0.28
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5..._Omega_A_L.jpg

opel calibra 1989 Cd 0.26
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5...t_20071007.jpg

i think this proves it's more than possible to build practical cars, that don't even have to all that funny looking.

It's really too bad that most of the public is gunshy of any unusual design. Citroens in general have been slippery cars, and they had that brilliant hydropneumatic suspension system that you could lower for highway driving just by moving a lever, yet gave excellent handling and an absurdly smooth ride.

Front wheel skirts
 

I'd love to see floating/articulating front wheel skirts that turn with the wheels.

I'm already designing them in my head.

I guess basjoos has the passive kind.

I want a 6th gear!!! Sometimes, at near 3,000 rpm going only 55mph. I actually finding myself looking at the shifter. Damn! Out of gears again!!!!

I would totally like a 6th gear. Especially since car companies are making 5-speed automatics with lower gear ratios than their standard counterparts...!!!

I know that feeling... except that the car is at 52mph when the 2000rpm shouts me to shift up.

Denis.

Hello,

Here's an email that will be sending to all car makers (that I can find email addresses for!):

If any/all of you can do the same thing -- use my list, or write your own; then we might get them to improve the FE of all their vehicles.

Please share the email addresses that you know about, for any/all of the car companies!

New cars that shut off at a dead stop. Electric A/C, etc. to make this possible.

24V electrical systems, at least partial to run the constantly used starter.

Retrofit shut down kits for Toyota and Honda passenger car engines & Chevy and Ford Truck gasoline engines.

I would be first in line to buy and also start installing these systems.

Stinkin diesel ?
 

Know what Johnny ? The problem is that America cannot get the kind of modern diesels we have here in Europe; I am NOT a diesel man myself but I am impressed when I take the company car, a 2007 Renault Mégane station wagon with a 1,5 litre 16-valve turbodiesel and that little car cruises at 100 mph - no kidding ! I have done runs in northern France to Brussels keeping 85-100 mph speeds and you cant tell it's a puny diesel.

On top of that it doesn't smell at all ! These are called twin-scroll turbocharged, common rail injection engines.

Cheers

Denis
France

I'm not sure if I should take that as an Insult or a complement.:rolleyes:

A comprehensive list:
 

Here's a updated list:

I want to try to list steps that car makers could/should take to improve the fuel efficiency, in approximate order of cost:

The most obvious improvement to cars, would be to mold the plastic on the front of the vehicle to be smooth and round, with grill openings that are sized (and placed) only as required to cool the engine. Some new plastic bumper covers and grill pieces could be snapped onto cars. Flush covers should be used on all lights. Fairing pieces could be added to side mirrors. Hood gap gaskets, and streamlined wheel covers are easy, too.

All these improvements (above) can add at least 10% and as much as 25% to the fuel economy. Here's more:

* Sealing all the seams and joints (with gaskets or backing flanges) in the high pressure areas of the vehicle.

* Smooth floor pans with no sharp protrusions -- this is part of the drag just as much as the parts of the car that can be easily seen. Smoothing the underside with covers (like the EV-1).

* Transmission ratios should be optimized for efficiency at normal driving speeds. Higher gearing with 6-7 speeds would be optimal (smaller engines need more gears to work efficiently); or CVT transmissions.

* Narrower and lighter, LRR (low rolling resistance) tires should be used.

* Average & "instant" MPG displays, that are on all the time. The new Honda Insight, the 3rd gen Prius, and some Ford models, have excellent displays that help the driver be more efficient.

* Throttle control (rather than cruise/speed control!) that maintains even throttle in a user-set speed range, with minimal throttle increases to maintain the speed in that range.

* Tire pressure monitor, that warns the driver when the tires get below the recommended pressure (which could be adjusted upwards if the driver wants to run a pressure up to the tire sidewall maximum).

* Efficient and effective fresh air flow through the vehicle, with intakes on a high pressure area, and exhaust vent(s) out the back of the vehicle into the low pressure wake zone, to reduce drag as much as possible.

* Coat all the window glass to exclude as much heat as possible.

* On defrost mode, the A/C should only come on automatically at maximum defrost (if at all), and it should be on a timer of ~1 minute, and it should always be toggled on/off by the driver. I would prefer to make A/C on the defrost setting optional.

* Efficient lights such as LED's and HID, that use a little power as possible while functioning as well (or better) than incandescent lights.

* Lower consumption electronics, such as A/C, fans and audio systems.

* Use very low friction wheel bearings, such as ceramic bearings; along with low viscosity lubrication, to reduce rolling resistance. The VW 1L car uses these.

* Active grill, that opens when more cooling air is needed, but remains closed – and is more aerodynamic most of the time.

* Fully ducted engine cooling system, with the intake down low on the front, and the exhaust flows into a low pressure zone; minimizing the size of the radiator and the reducing the "internal" drag as much as possible.

* Video cameras and screens in place of side mirrors. This would help a lot with aerodynamics.

* Automatic engine shut off and start up; at least with CVT (or automatic) transmissions -- and possibly with standard shifts, based on having both the clutch and the brake applied?

* Lean burn in low vacuum conditions. Use variable valve timing to gain efficiencies.

* Store hot coolant in a vacuum insulated tank, to speed up warm-up time; a-la what the 2nd generation Prius does. Or, do what the 3rd generation Prius does: heat the coolant quickly using the exhaust heat. Preheating intake air would also help fully vaporize the fuel; making it higher efficiency.

* Tighten up wheel openings, and always use aerodynamically designed wheels/covers, with rear wheel skirts (at least optional).

* Make roof racks removable. Years ago, I saw a "papoose" add-on storage system that locked onto the back of the car, with a single caster wheel to support the weight -- it tucked completely into the air flow behind the car; and it would be a great way to add storage space when needed; that did not affect how you drove very much. It could actually greatly improve the overall aerodynamic drag of the vehicle.

* Regenerative shock absorbers: MIT has a method of using hydraulics to drive a generator, eliminating the need for a mechanically driven alternator; or, to charge the electric drive batteries. These can also be used to lift and level the vehicle, to improve aerodynamics under different loads.

* Use a composite wheel/tire that has low weight, very low rolling resistance (by being strong enough to stay round), and low aerodynamic drag, no worries about inflation -- and re-tune the suspension to work with said wheel/tire. (see item above)

* For new 4-cylinder engine designs, the crankshaft could be split with a hydraulic coupling that can automatically disengage two cylinders completely; saving all the pumping and friction losses, for situations when 2 cylinders are enough to provide the required torque to move the vehicle. There are also cam-driven designs that about double the efficiency of the ICE.

* Nissan is (supposedly) going to reduce their cars weight by ~15%. I think all cars could be reduced by 20-30% with smarter steel fabrications, smarter use of materials. Here's a site that shows a steel chassis that is 25% lighter and nearly twice as stiff/strong as a conventional steel chassis:

BlueScope Steel Australia: Ultra Light Steel Auto Body (ULSAB) Project

* Make every vehicle with a plug-in electric w/ serial hybrid ICE drive train, with regenerative braking.

* Rework the overall shape of the vehicle to reduce drag. Cd of 0.16-0.25 are achievable!

Is there anything that I left out?

Neil, what would be better .. send this email off to car companies or politicians with the promise to support or ban those that do not that do support our thoughts....

Because forcing our ideals on others is the ONLY WAY to get things done!

I agree with a lot of the ideas, but really, do we need more feds sticking their noses in everyones business?

Lots of these things are partly present in newer low consumption cars in France :)

• Upper front grill is minimal and lower front grill is partially blocked (less for diesel which has the turbo cooler).
• Wipers are hidden behind the hood
• 6 speeds gear are an options more and more common
• LRR are often by default (Michelin Energy Saver) and I have seen a commercial saying that the FE is measured with these tires

The comments I heard on TV about the Prius III & Insight II tell me that these low Cd cars will not be accepted by people. They were saying that they hopped that the new versions were going to look like cars but they are always bad looking.
The French sedan corresponding to the Prius (Citroen C4 berline or Renault Laguna) have a Cd of 0.29, ie 16% more drag and 13% more fuel consumption at highway speed... but it seams that people and journalists can't understand that... They just want the sport look with huge front grill, huge wheels (with their air blenders ;) )...
The comments about the Econ mode and the Efficiency display of the Insight II were all negative ("no interest", "ridiculous game"...).
The only positive comment about the Insight II was that the electric system is only an assistance to the ICE so there is less batteries, less weight and more room...

The more I ecodrive, the more I love low Cd cars :cool: and the more I want my car to be as efficient at coasting in high speed than it's in low speed.

Denis.

Well I don't think the car companies were the ones leading the pack to install seatbelts. They felt it would give the impression that their cars were unsafe. So yeah, in cases like this a push from the feds wouldn't be a bad thing.

Hi,

Both! I have sent it to all my congressional reps, and I have sent it every car company I can think of and find an email for.

And you can/should do the same, too. And letters to the editor...

I don't post here much, I just like to read what all of you guys say but here are my 2 cents.

Make a car with less horsepower, this is one of the reasons why the Metro gets such good mileage.

Make a light car, once again the Metro is a perfect example of this.

Make a car with a Camless engine. I don't know how many of you guys have heard of this, I would imagine most of you had.

Here is a good camless engine link: Browser Warning

Transmissions: I have little experience with the new CVT (Constantly Variable Transmission) I got to drive a Dodge product with this transmission in it but the car seemed fat and heavy, typical of most American Cars.

We got in a discussion at work about the mileage of new trucks, the guys at work were saying how these new trucks get the same mileage as trucks from the past. I pointed out that these new trucks are weighing a lot more and have at least 2 times the horse power. Imagine a new truck with only 150 horse power and a reg cab long box, I wonder what kind of mileage this combo would get. This would mean though that the truck wouldn't be able to pull 10,000lbs without slowing down going up a hill.

Bicycles can carry ten times their own weight, so I think that cars should be completely redesigned around a goal of not weighing more than their useful load, and be sized all the way down to single rider models. Simplicity and uniformity of controls would help people choose the right size from a vehicle co-op instead of always driving around with seats that are only filled once or twice a year.

As others have noted, streamlining can improve. We should aim for ratings in the teens, not the twenties. On average, getting the most out of a small-engined car is more fun than looking for opportunities to let a musclecar flex for a few seconds at a time. Nobody needs more performance than a loaded cube van for practical reasons. Engines can still benefit from variable valve timing. With wider gearing, it can be as good as variable displacement. There may be opportunities in variable compression devices. Exhaust heat can provide electricity and/or air conditioning. Tires should be designed for economy, with good handling and ride qualities; extreme traction is almost never used to avoid accidents, while playing with it can encourage them, and make them worse. Drifting is fun at any g force.

Yes, I've long thought it is more fun to drive a slow car fast than to drive a fast car slow.

Hi,

Here's another thing that car makers could do: use a composite wheel/tire that has low weight, very low rolling resistance (by being strong enough to stay round), and low aerodynamic drag, no worries about inflation -- and re-tune the suspension to work with said wheel/tire.

Believe me, I'm in Scion's ear almost daily and involved in alot of their meetings to discuss the "Future" of Scion. I'm always discussing the balance between edgy and Eco, trying to convince them that this push will come from the younglings not their parents ..

Comments on Neil’s updated list:

Combining rounded front and active grille:
Keep in mind that litigation concerns mean that manufacturers have to design cars for the worst case scenario – prolonged idling in Death Valley in the summer without overheating and the air conditioning working OK. That said, the active grille is something the diesel pickup truck community has been crying out for. Diesels take forever to warm up without substantial load. Closing off the grille would allow for quick warmup and active opening would allow it to adapt to Death Valley conditions when needed and be more aerodynamic the rest of the time. Another thing to add: Normally closed ducted brake cooling inlets that open when the brake lights come on.

Sealing seams depends on size of the seam. General aviation people have found that gap seals work well on 150 knot aircraft but don’t really help 130 knot aircraft. So you see gap seals on Mooneys but not Cessna 182s. Cars are even slower so the gap would have to be enormous (the gap between pickup beds and cabs) to be worth bothering with.

Floor pans are OK, but you have to take under-body servicing into account. Don’t make the poor mechanic miserable or your repair bills will be astronomical.

More gear ratios are good and I’d add that the torque converter has to go. CVT works for small, low-powered vehicles but is a flop for anything bigger. The new dual-clutch sequential gearboxes are a step in the right direction.

LRR tires are good but keep in mind their lesser traction. I’d like to see rolling resistance coefficients more widely published.

I used to have a Pontiac Grand Prix that had a MPG display that was on all the time.

Tire pressure monitors are available on Hummers. How accurate they are…I don’t know.

I like the idea of video cameras to replace side mirrors but state and federal regulations would have to be changed to allow this.

Right now, I don’t see a lot of scope for lower coefficients of drag. People have expressed a preference for an upright seating position and that more or less dictates a “hedgehog” vehicle shape and few people are willing to live with the additional length that a true boattail requires.

Wheel skirts area good idea, but they service issues have to be addressed. A skirt will be hated if it requires ten minutes work to get it off long enough to check air pressure in the tires.

Lighter cars are possible, but with collision standards what they are, that entails a much more complex and expensive structure. Cars are at the ragged edge of being unaffordable as is.

Pretty much agree with Dave's summary.

But, in my case, I think I'd like a wider gear ratio spread on my 5-speed rather than more gears. I do enough skip-shifting the way it is. In fact I think that if I had a 3 or 4 speed stick tranny with a tall enough top gear, I'd find that satisfactory. About the only time I go through all the gears is when I'm accelerating at a higher than normal rate, or if the car is heavily loaded.

Disclaimer: I am a flat lander so maybe the Hill People need more gears.

maybe a clever systems based on what most big trucks use might be interesting.

basically a two gearbox system where one gearbox is in series with the other
if you'd place a two speed gearbox in line with a 3 speed you could have 3 low and 3 high gears.

i admit someone will need to do some serious number crunching to get the tight ratios and there'd have to be an well thought off mechanical or electronic linkage so that the average person is not confronted with a frankenstein's lab array of levers .

another thing i'm still rather intregued by was when i heared of something called a variamatic transmission.. i believe it was used by volvo a long time ago where basicaly some sort of belf was put over a pulley that consisted of two opposed conical pieces. to change the ratio the cones would simply move closer together makeing the effective pulleys diameter bigger or they'd move appart makeing the diameter smaller.... sounds like a simple method that gives you infinate gear ratios.
and it could be well addapted to makeing a semi automatic with manual inputs to up or downshift to give you manual like controle over the revvs, but at the same time withing such a virtual "gear" the computer could still make small adjustments so you can't lugg the engine. better still such a system is easily coupled to software maps for sport and eco modes etc, and if carmakers are really serious they'd allow for some "custom setting" or better still learnig mode that seeks for patterns in your driveing and adjusts the map to thos preferences but at the same time "bad" habits could be pointed out to the driver and more econimical prosedures advised...

CVT ?
Continuously variable transmission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Denis.