What is the lowest power x86 compatible desktop PC you can build?
 

My parents more and more can't run their PC at craft shows because of needing electricity or a generator.

We have run batteries several times but many places have a cow even though the batteries are unspillable sealed Greensavers.

I DO NOT WANT A LAPTOP and will do that as a last resort only.

Requirements.

1. Desktop or tower PC, preferably a case large enough that fits standard components when I need them and is durable

2. X86 compatible, our proprietary business software runs under Windows 9x only and is only semi functional under XP

3. Did I say low power? I would like it to run at as low of power as possible, if I could buy one that used a single watt and was still something I could buy and build easily I would buy it.

4. I use a monitor to display our work to customers, size is not important (13"+) but it should be separate from the computer so I can place it near the customers without my keyboard being in the aisle and obviously it must use very little power, I could do with B&W but color is prefered, since we are usually in a tent under full sun a reflective model might work and I would definately consider ANTIQUE monitors if they use very little power and have a Windows 9x interface card.

5. Only needs to be Equivalent to a pentium 133mhz or better, better is nice lower power is better. I need a minimum of 32mb but 256mb is obviously much better. I need VGA or better, better is prefered, I need Parallel and would like USB.

6. Age, I could care less, in fact if I could buy a used low power system that would be even better.

My printer I am somewhat stuck with as I can't really find any that are much more efficient and still run as a laser.

Currently my system when putting around but not printing uses 100-130watts for a 19" monitor, tower computer and idling printer.

I would very much like to reduce this, I can only run 3 days on battery power max at this rate with about 3 dozen surges to 500watt for 15 seconds. (not really 500watt constant over the 15sec.)

If I could reduce the rate my 4 battery pack could be reduced to 2 batteries or possibly 1 battery.

I also would consider a system like this a nice chance for me to have an excuse to build a PC system again and a Nice intro to the possibility of running on solar :)

Are there any complete PC systems that only draw a couple watts in the desktop form factor and are x86 compatble?

The Intel ATOM as far as I can tell draws more power as a system then my antique crap box but it is faster. (AKA 80watts for an ATOM is not unheard of)

Thank You
Ryan May

The AMD Geode CPU uses very little power, there are plenty of used thin clients and embedded systems that have them on ebay.

Now if I could find one with a legacy port or 2 so I don't have Win9x printer issues and one with a moderate graphics card that has driver support of some type for 9x I will be set.

I have often thought of going to a HDless flash card or the like but would probably not like the price required for 60GB (yeah I actually do use a lot of disk space if I have everything there, at least considering the type of system it is)

Now onto the monitor, what style/type of monitor would be akin to a system like this, using minimal power without being completely non-standard?

If you were after a powerful PC that runs Windows 7, is a media center, and runs the latest games, I would recommend you build something like this:

Robertsmalls' 23W (at idle) computer - EcoRenovator

Note NiHaoMike's posts in that thread, talking about non-x86 PCs whose power consumption puts even the best x86 to shame. It would be pretty fruitful if you could migrate to such a platform.

Antique components aren't of any use to you. Old chips are built on larger processes, run at higher voltages, and lack the power management features of newer components.

Here's what I'd build:
*Motherboard with 760G. Look around on SilentPCReview.com and find one with good undervolting options. Underclocking and undervolting is the key to low power consumption. Integrated graphics saves you from having to power a discrete video card.
*Sempron CPU. Get the slowest 45nm single-core CPU you can find, then underclock it as low as you can stand, then undervolt it to the threshold of stability. Since you're talking about Windows 9x, I assume this means a 2.7GHz Sempron running at 800MHz.
*A small stick of RAM, undervolted and underclocked.
*An SSD if you're feeling spendy, or a single-platter 5400RPM hard drive if not
*A small LCD monitor with the backlight set to minimum. Build the monitor into a recessed shroud if that's what it takes to lower the brightness. My television uses 150W at full brightness, and 45W at minimum. My 19" LCD uses 30W at full, 10W at minimum.
*PicoPSU. There's nothing more efficient on the market, so there's only one choice in PSU.

That's everything! Don't allow yourself any unnecessary peripherals like floppy drives etc. The whole system, including monitor, should be around 30W.

Or just buy a cheap NetTop, throw it under the desk, and hook it up to a real monitor, keyboard, and mouse.

I know you said no laptop, but this would be my suggestion too.
As for the win9X compatibility try a virtual machine. VMware player or something similar will allow you to run nearly any OS/software on modern hardware without worry of driver or port compatibility.

A laptop would be the easiest solution, and possibly even the best. They're already optimized for low power usage, even the screen. I have a 9" tablet with a Core Solo that uses about 10w at idle with the screen on, it maxes at about 17w with the CPU loaded and wifi on. Any atom netbook should get you similar results.

rmay635703 -

I don't think you will find your solution at this URL, but I look at it to get a feel for prices :

Motherboards, Computer Motherboards, Cheap Motherboards, Discount Motherboards - Geeks.com
Desktop Computer, Desktop PC, Refurbished Computers, Refurbished PCs, Used Computers at Geeks.com

vskid3, here is a think client, but I don't know if it's any good :

HP Thin Client t5545 VIA Eden 1.0GHz 512MB DDR2 SDRAM 512MB Flash Memory No Operating System - B HP FQ798AA#ABA Thin Client t5545
CarloSW2

I would go with a used laptop like the HP tx1000 its under 5lbs with the larger battery it should last 3-4 hours running Vista on balanced power profile. The max watts the power brick can draw is 65w so it can be unplugged most of the day and easily charged or hibernated then replace the battery and you are ready to go again in 5min.

Perhaps a Mini-ITX type system? They generate so little heat (some of them) that the CPU is fanless. I'd say a 15" LCD for the monitor. Use a CompactFlash card for an SSD with a CF to IDE or CF to SATA adapter (low power).

Don't know about your printer, but you'd probably be in the 20-80 watts range on the ITX board, 20-40 watts for monitor.

The original Atom used in desktops used 2.5W, with the accompanying chipset using 22W. The new single-core models use 10W with an integrated chipset, so power consumption has gone down a lot with the latest generation.

Regardless of what you decide to get, buy a power supply that has an 80+ certification, as power supplies without them tend to be 60-75% efficient instead of 80-90%. There are now three levels of 80+ (bronze, silver, gold), so it's good to look around to find the best you can get in your price range.

The old tandy laptop like PCs were x86 compatible and ran on a couple AA batteries.

MY PII full tower uses about 60watts for the whole tower and all, my old 486 used only about 20 watts tower and all, my tandy 1000 RLX was around 8 watts for the whole system.

So yes older can be better for power consumption, especially when you factor in the system really was off when you hit the kill switch, Speed can have a rather dramatic cost and the Atoms really don't normally as a full system draw only a watt or two, typically at full load they are upwards of 60watts up to 80 watts for the whole system (not including monitor). Where the ATOM shines is when it is idle it can clock down to a couple watts, just not when in use.

And in reality I can stand most any system speed for the task, really 300mhz is sufficient, for certain aspects a high speed is nice but definately unnecessary. I used to run the system on a 486DX2 66mhz setup and it ran fine, but I didn't do the extra graphics then, and it took a bit longer to look up a first or last name. What I do really need is a fair amount of memory, 256mb helps much more than clock speed on the software concerned, more than that and the software crashes, less and it runs more slowly.

Thank You For The Suggestions
It looks like the AMD Geode is the most likely to come in a flavor that will tolerate Windows 98 software, My heraldry and name meaning software simply doesn't run under 2000 or higher, when I hacked it into Windows XP I couldn't get some of the functions to work and I can't get my BMP printer to function. (which I need to distort and fit text instantly onto any type of artwork without 5-10minutes of photoship work)

As for laptops, I would have to then carry a 2nd monitor as our booth layout simply wouldn't allow me to quickly, easily and safely show the customer the poem, information or image. Also the laptop is very very likely to get damaged, we are loaded to the ceiling when we go and the PC needs a good tough case to survive the trip

VMWare doesn't seem to work, my hardware dongle really doesn't like it and VMWare tends to break many of the printing tricks I need to use, it also increases the level of complexity since my folks will be using it without me there.

For a business VMWare simply is a no go and more trouble than its worth. It is far easier using the real hardware than doing it the hard way.

Ryan

Not true. What you need to do is think of the laptop as the system. You keep it closed, maybe under a counter (or wherever you'd normally keep your desktop unit), and plug in external monitor, keyboard, & mouse (or use wireless for those last two). The laptop is probably more rugged than any desktop, lighter, and more power-efficient, because it has been designed with those qualities in mind.

Also, most laptop processors have a sleep mode which essentially turns the CPU off when there's no work to be done. I use Linux, so I don't know how this is controlled on a Windows system, but you might look at the Powertop utility for ideas on minimizing power use.

Agree with jamesqf... If you've been able to transport a display plus printer before without destroying them, the laptop would do fine. Regardless if you get a desktop-style system with an external monitor or a laptop with an external monitor, you still have to schlepp around an external monitor. Benefit of the laptop is that you don't always have to connect that external monitor if you want to do a quick check on your system or have some data to input or want to show a customer something real quick or ... etc.

look up "gumstix"

They're pocket PC's based on the Mini-ITX platform, but taken to a much smaller extent.

The "full system", as it were, is no larger than a pack of cigarettes, until you add your peripherals.

One of those will have similar system capacity to some of the 90's computers that were capable of running games like Doom and the like, but will still be capable of multi-tasking due to newer technology. They also don't require cooling. Simply placing the system in open air is enough. Occasionally, if it gets too warm, blowing lightly on the CPU will bring the temps back into range.

Something else you might consider is a human powered generator system for your trade shows where batteries are a problem. The lanterns that you wind up which have self contained batteries could be modified to pass current rather than produce light, and between customers, you could get a light workout by cranking the handle.

The gumstix PC systems run on DC naturally, and an AC adapter can be purchased separately, similar to a laptop charger, so the lantern and a DC/DC converter should be more than sufficient to power the <20w models, not including your monitor and periphery.

fyi, my old toshiba 4200 satellite pro (400mhz, 327meg ram, parallel port) draws about 40-50 watts (not great, but it includes display) and runs on a simple 12v power connector.

I also measured my compac EVO N600c at 20-25 watts.
it is a 1.066 ghz processor, 730meg ram, parallel port, running XP but would have no problem with 98 I'm sure. Needs 15-24 volts (or an inverter)

I can do better than that: Lenovo T61, 2.2 GHz dual-core, 2 GB RAM, in my usual just-editing-code mode runs around 17-20 watts. This is with external keyboard & mouse and the notebook display off, driving a large display that's separately powered.

Of course when I'm running test code (things like seismic tomography) that does serious number-crunching, it goes up to something like 60-80 watts, but that's not at all frequent. But this is a 3 year old system, too.

yes, but my n600c was free so I win :) Though they can be had for $50ish. You are probably looking at $350 to $400 for a used Lenovo T61

I use a HP thinclient "Neoware" purchased off Ebay for $60. It runs my magicjack, and eventually wil run the house smart system. Has windows xp embedded software. There are alot of hacks on the internet for thin clients using different operating systems.

It claims to only use 13 watts but I have not checked it. It has been running fine for a year now.

I'm thirding the laptop idea. There are a lot of refurb atoms going for ~$200 right now and they only use ~10+W on average. Just plug in a mouse, keyboard, and monitor. You could also go for a VIA C7D combo for ~$60 if you already have a good PS, DDR2 ram, HD, and a case, but it uses ~2x the power and if you don't then it would probably cost almost as much.

Experience says no, My computer that is in there now and printer are used to support other stuff in our brick of stuff, we use the computer as a structural
component so to say.

I have broken laptop screens in the past, laptop hinges among other things even while taking greater care transporting them so they don't get smashed or fall.

I also have found laptops (for me at least) simply do not last very long without developing bugs or hardware issues, the last one the keyboard internally started flaking out not long after purchase and then the external would do the same shortly after.

Lets just say I have not had good luck with new laptops, antiques yes, new not so much.

thing is a laptop with a parallel port (that is a requirement for those that don't know, as well as being able to run windows 98) is cheap (occasionally free) and fairly low power in many cases. Build a wooden box around it with plenty of cushioning and lots of room for cooling and access to the keyboard/printer/mouse/vga ports and bobs your uncle, for like $50. It's the most cost effective option as well as being a reuse opportunity.

Box can then be your "structural component", custom built for the "brick of stuff"...

If you are considering building a PC, you may consider buying an integrated motherboard with Via Nano CPU. It uses less power than Atom while it is significantly faster. Cost of the 1GHz model is also cheap, <$50 when I checked Newegg.

The original netbook, the ASUS EEE PC, has a solid state drive and tiny 7 inch screen... almost indestructible fat hinges also. It uses only 8 watts and has an external video port.

I know u don't want a laptop but the SSD is a way to go if you want power savings.

Along those lines, what about an iPad? No keyboard to get dirt into... and you can run windows 95 on it. see:

Apple iPad Gets Windows 95 Love With X86 Emulator

Some of the newer systems people are mentioning aren`t going to have win98 drivers available which could be problematic. I have a mini-ITX Pentium-M board with i855GM chipset and it would not boot win98 at all. I`m not sure why, may have been a BIOS issue, and this hardware is not even new (probably 6 years old or more).

I think an old Pentium-MMX laptop or a desktop system with a socket 7 motherboard and possibly an underclocked CPU would do the job just fine. Use a low-end video card, 2.5" HDD or CF card, and the monitor and printer will be the only things left to think about.

While it`s true that older parts use higher voltages and were manufactured with a larger process size, they also contain vastly fewer transistors on the die. In addition to that, die shrinks have yielded diminishing returns ever since the 90nm node because of leakage current. So if you don`t need all the features of the new stuff then older stuff isn`t out of the question.

The laptop I`m using right now has:
ULV Pentium M (1.1w idle, 5.5w tdp)
855PM chipset (1.8w tdp)
Mobility Radeon 7500 a.k.a. M7-CSP32 (1.6W idle, 5.3W tdp)

which is out of date but still looks pretty good compared to any atom/i945 combo