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Wonderboy 11-27-2009 11:35 AM

Wonderboy's Tercel EV Conversion
 
Continued from the back story of the other components I've acquired for this project... I opted out of converting my 91 civic hatch (decided to get it running again as a gasser for my girlfriend) and found this 96 tercel on CL for $250
http://i50.tinypic.com/esmh6p.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/333bcw5.jpg
Yes, it's frickin' ugly, and that's not even the reason the guy sold it. His friends thought he was taking it to the junkyard, so they gave it that nice little paint job before sending it off only to find he'd gotten a buyer on CL (me). Pretty irresponsible thing to do even if its getting sent to a yard, but I don't mind so much. Here's the real reason he sold it:
http://i50.tinypic.com/117yd85.jpg
See that hole in the engine block? That's a big-ass hole in the engine block.
I managed to get the engine, exhaust system, radiator, and fuel tank out. I will try to sell the latter three items as they are in pretty good shape.

Here's what it looks like now.
http://i47.tinypic.com/2eknlol.jpg
One of my parents' neighbors is a retired HVAC guy who has the tools to safely evacuate the coolant in the AC, which I left hanging in there. Getting the engine out with the trans still mounted at the rear was quite a battle, but I managed. In retrospect I probably should've just taken the whole thing out, making the adapter plate creation and alignment easier.

Here are all the useful components I ripped from that orange utility cart:
http://i46.tinypic.com/34xktqf.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/2s5y881.jpg

Next steps:
-Controller (planning on buying/building open revolt :thumbup: )
-More batteries (either 6 more used 6v or 6 12v. seeking local sources. So far I know there's an exide plant about an hour away, and an industrial equipment install/supply/repair place about 2 hours away. I'm not lucky enough to have a neighborhood EV dealer like Ben Nelson, but I wouldn't mind driving up to the nearest (ZAP in Boston area) if the price is right. Any help in the battery acquisition area would be much appreciated)
-Adapter plate (Still haven't decided on whether to embark on this myself or find a machinist - still making rounds with my connections.)
-1 rear wheel cylinder (pas. side rear brake doesn't work)
-Body work (fix the only rust on the car at the rear of the rocker panels and PAINT this ugly beast back to stock black.

Christ 11-27-2009 12:18 PM

Looks good! Did you still pay $250 for it? I'd have probably offered the guy $200 after seeing that it was painted like that, unless you agreed to $250 knowing that it was painted.

Either way, it was a good deal. You should probably see if you can sell that head as well, or sell the whole motor for parts... Could bring you another $50 or so, core price, anyway.

MetroMPG 11-27-2009 12:21 PM

Woohoo - another project under way.

(You should post a link at the end of your mother lode EV parts thread directing people here.)

Adapter plate is easy. You can make one with hand tools if you get a piece of aluminum plate.

I've also seen some conversions cleverly slice the end of the ICE block off, and use that as their adapter plate!

The coupler is going to be a bit harder to do.

Remind us again what your performance/range goals are?

Christ 11-27-2009 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG (Post 141921)
Woohoo - another project under way.

(You should post a link at the end of your mother lode EV parts thread directing people here.)

Adapter plate is easy. You can make one with hand tools if you get a piece of aluminum plate.

I've also seen some conversions cleverly slice the end of the ICE block off, and use that as their adapter plate!


The coupler is going to be a bit harder to do.

Remind us again what your performance/range goals are?

http://i50.tinypic.com/117yd85.jpg

Looks like it might be the perfect use for the block, then you can still sell the head and make that extra $50!

For the coupler, if you don't plan on using the clutch disk, you can take the center hub out of it, weld it onto the end of a properly sized/length tube that matches the output end of your motor, and you should be good to go there.

By the way, if you need a template for an adapter plate, that dust shield behind the flywheel is perfect for that, as well.

SVOboy 11-27-2009 01:00 PM

Looking good! Guess you won't have time to come help me play with me car (which is a good thing I think) :)

I think you should keep the paint job

Daox 11-27-2009 01:23 PM

Woohoo, another conversion. :)

BTW, lemme know what parts you are getting rid of. That is the same engine I have in my Paseo and I might be interested.

Wonderboy 11-28-2009 11:20 AM

Quote:

I've also seen some conversions cleverly slice the end of the ICE block off, and use that as their adapter plate!

The coupler is going to be a bit harder to do.

Remind us again what your performance/range goals are?
I can't use the end of the block because that's where the hole and crack are. The crack in the engine runs all the way to the interface with the trans... I could get a better picture when I take pictures of the things I intend to sell. That dust shield, however, is perfect. I may be able to use the hub from the clutch to help me make the coupler, as topher mentioned.

I'd be very happy with 20-30 miles, with a top speed of 45mph and slow acceleration. I'm expecting less in both, but a guy can dream, no? That 36v motor looks pretty small compared to the more popular bigger conversion motors, and I don't know what to expect when I run twice the voltage rating through it.
Quote:

Looking good! Guess you won't have time to come help me play with me car (which is a good thing I think)
I knew you didn't want me around :(:(

Quote:

I think you should keep the paint job
How about I give that paint job to your car then paint this one black? I'm pretty good with a spray can and I think I can duplicate that rich detailing to your satisfaction on the IRX.

Quote:

BTW, lemme know what parts you are getting rid of. That is the same engine I have in my Paseo and I might be interested.
I'm getting rid of everything ICE related. Everything but the block and maybe the head is in great shape (although there was some oil in the intake box for some reason - I think this engine quite literally blew up.). I removed the exhaust from the manifold and the manifold from the head without any issue (no shearing off of bolts) and it's nice and solid - nothing rusting away. Radiator is good, power steering, AC system (sans coolant of course), fuel tank/pump, et cetera. I'll likely make a FS post here for a while and see if tercel/paseo people need anything, then move to CL.

dremd 11-28-2009 02:28 PM

Nice!
Subscribed

Funny 11-30-2009 12:33 PM

Subscribed, looking forward to the project.

Did you end up getting the Honda into running condition for the wife, uh girlfriend?

Wonderboy 11-30-2009 01:23 PM

One of the previous owners of that civic apparently began an MPFI swap, but didn't seem to know well what he was doing because the car came with 2 DPFI intake assemblies, an extra harness, and 3 Td-01u dizzys. Both harnesses are hacked up a bit (don't know if it was done correctly). The appropriate ECU is actually there, and Christ just came through with the right dizzy for me. This car will probably get its own thread too, eventually.

EDIT: My honda hatch is still for sale, but for 400 now that I've acquired a few more parts for it to get it running. Actually, anything I own is for sale for the right price :thumbup: Anyone want to trade an HX for my 98 Civic EX? How about an Insight?:D

McTimson 11-30-2009 04:24 PM

Woo, EV Tercel! That paint job looks sick, you should definitely leave it.

JonnyG 11-30-2009 06:30 PM

Any rust from the salt on those Binghamton roads? Even if there is some rust, it was still an awesome deal. Be sure to keep us updated!!

Wonderboy 12-01-2009 09:54 PM

I called up the 2 local exide places, the interstate place, and a local material handling place. A note for anyone calling up places like these looking for a source of EV batteries, used the word "blem", short for "blemished" batteries, and ask for warranty returned batteries. I also got the idea to contact local golf courses that use electric carts. One of the Exide places was no help whatsoever, the other took my name down and actually seemed like a promising prospect to call me back with some cheap used batteries. They do a lot of recycling and get warranty batteries in that can easily be revived. The interstate place also seemed like a good prospect, but doesn't typically see 6x6v or 6x12v batteries just waltz in, especially this time of year. The guy also took my name and number down, but said spring would be a better time when people are dragging battery powered things out of the garage from winter. I figured the material handling place might have something (they do forklift kind of stuff) because they may have those indoor genie lifts that often run on a pack of deep cycles as opposed to the 1000+lb. packs that forklifts commonly use. No dice - they said they have a person that comes up from PA to recycle ALL of their batteries (which is probably the exide place that took my name and number).

Does anyone have any suggestions on sourcing some batteries? I really should get the controller first and just use car batteries to test everything, but meh. I suppose it may be best to wait til spring.

Christ 12-01-2009 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonderboy (Post 143221)
I called up the 2 local exide places, the interstate place, and a local material handling place. A note for anyone calling up places like these looking for a source of EV batteries, used the word "blem", short for "blemished" batteries, and ask for warranty returned batteries. I also got the idea to contact local golf courses that use electric carts. One of the Exide places was no help whatsoever, the other took my name down and actually seemed like a promising prospect to call me back with some cheap used batteries. They do a lot of recycling and get warranty batteries in that can easily be revived. The interstate place also seemed like a good prospect, but doesn't typically see 6x6v or 6x12v batteries just waltz in, especially this time of year. The guy also took my name and number down, but said spring would be a better time when people are dragging battery powered things out of the garage from winter. I figured the material handling place might have something (they do forklift kind of stuff) because they may have those indoor genie lifts that often run on a pack of deep cycles as opposed to the 1000+lb. packs that forklifts commonly use. No dice - they said they have a person that comes up from PA to recycle ALL of their batteries (which is probably the exide place that took my name and number).

Does anyone have any suggestions on sourcing some batteries? I really should get the controller first and just use car batteries to test everything, but meh. I suppose it may be best to wait til spring.

Go to Wally World's auto center, talk to the manager there, and ask if you can buy the cores from them. Sometimes they're cool about it, they're ~$9 each.

AutoZone/Advance Auto, ~$7 each. Again, talk to the managers. Often, they'll let you swap bad cores in for other cores on the pallets, but don't make a mess, and try to keep your core returns clean for them.

vpoppv 12-02-2009 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonderboy (Post 143221)
I called up the 2 local exide places, the interstate place, and a local material handling place. A note for anyone calling up places like these looking for a source of EV batteries, used the word "blem", short for "blemished" batteries, and ask for warranty returned batteries. I also got the idea to contact local golf courses that use electric carts. One of the Exide places was no help whatsoever, the other took my name down and actually seemed like a promising prospect to call me back with some cheap used batteries. They do a lot of recycling and get warranty batteries in that can easily be revived. The interstate place also seemed like a good prospect, but doesn't typically see 6x6v or 6x12v batteries just waltz in, especially this time of year. The guy also took my name and number down, but said spring would be a better time when people are dragging battery powered things out of the garage from winter. I figured the material handling place might have something (they do forklift kind of stuff) because they may have those indoor genie lifts that often run on a pack of deep cycles as opposed to the 1000+lb. packs that forklifts commonly use. No dice - they said they have a person that comes up from PA to recycle ALL of their batteries (which is probably the exide place that took my name and number).

Does anyone have any suggestions on sourcing some batteries? I really should get the controller first and just use car batteries to test everything, but meh. I suppose it may be best to wait til spring.

My experience with Exide was mixed: on the one hand, they gave me a lot of money for useless lead. On the other hand, every single price quoted to me for a "blem" battery was (to me anyway) exhorbitant. It was basically just a few percent off of retail. But then, they ARE in the business of selling batteries, and I can't very well expect them to pay me $10.50 for a worthless battery and expect them to sell me a good one for $15!!! That said, they hinted at a place for me to get great deals locally.
Where I found my batteries was a boat store. I ended up buying 16 batteries from them at $7 each. Half were bad. Sold the bad ones for between $7-$10.50. So, basically I paid $7 for every good battery, and broke even or made money on the bad ones. I would imagine the same process would work with RV places as well. It might be possible to get Optima batteries from audio places: I imagine people routinely bring them in towards the end of the warranty period to get a fresh one. I imagine boat and RV places would be the best source though, because they get batteries that sit a lot and they don't want to deal with the hassle of "breaking in" batteries. I think it's probably hard to do without an EV to whip them into shape....

Daox 12-02-2009 07:17 AM

I wouldn't suggest even testing with used starting batteries. I tried this with my mower and they just fall flat on their face after a few seconds of sustained power draw.

MetroMPG 12-09-2009 08:08 PM

We put 36v worth of worn out, free 6v floor sweeper batteries in the car as our test pack:

http://forkenswift.com/album/14-pow-...batts-test.jpg

From: EV conversion parts: batteries and battery racks - ForkenSwift.com

Hot off the charger, they were good enough to go about a kilometer before we reversed a cell in one or two of them. :)

gone-ot 12-09-2009 08:11 PM

...gee, I didn't realize a ScanGauge II drew THAT much current (wink,wink)!

Wonderboy 12-10-2009 09:41 AM

Quote:

We put 36v worth of worn out, free 6v floor sweeper batteries in the car as our test pack
Would you advise trying to get a hold of deep cycles, no matter how crappy (like the sweeper ones you used), or could I get enough out of regular car batteries to get a clear idea of what kind of acceleration and top speed I can expect?

What did you do for your existing pack(s)? How did you get them? (I remember you mentioning the wisdom of having two packs - a crappier one and a better one so that all the batteries in one pack are in similar condition under load so one bad or worse battery won't take the rest of them with it)

Batteries are a big source of frustration for me because there is no Paul and Sabrina's open source 144v battery pack project, and probably never will be. They can't be produced at home as far as we know, and I know there are tons of perfectly good deep cycle batteries out there, but I either can't find them or they are too far away. There are better things for me to focus on like coupling the electric motor and the trans and getting a controller, but I feel like I could get those things done at lightning speed compared to my progress with batteries. I also want to wait a bit to see if Paul ends up adding Joe's charger to the revolt or vice versa to make a controller and charger in one. If you haven't seen the charger thing, its awesome. This forum is awesome :D

MetroMPG 12-22-2009 04:09 PM

Whoops, delayed response....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonderboy (Post 146362)
Would you advise trying to get a hold of deep cycles, no matter how crappy (like the sweeper ones you used), or could I get enough out of regular car batteries to get a clear idea of what kind of acceleration and top speed I can expect?

If you can get them for free (or for the recycling fee, which you can get back later), sure, collect all you can get. You could put together a simple capacity testing rig -- like this one -- and spend the winter rounding up recruits for a pack that will be good enough to test with.

Quote:

What did you do for your existing pack(s)? How did you get them?
All the "good" batteries are cast-offs from other EV owners in the Ottawa EV group. The first "decent" pack was made up of the "weaklings" that a Ranger EV owner would periodically evict when his pack monitor showed them falling on their faces before the others.

The batteries we have now are quite good - about 2-3 years old, replaced by a Jetta owner who was upgrading from floodies to AGM's, if I'm not mistaken. These are good enough to serve the ForkenSwift's modest range needs for many years to come.

Quote:

there are tons of perfectly good deep cycle batteries out there, but I either can't find them or they are too far away.
Joined an EV club yet? Marinas, golf cart supply/service co's, industrial floor sweeper / scissor lift companies... They're out there somewhere.

Wonderboy 02-03-2010 05:23 PM

I started to make a plywood adapter plate for the transmission today using the handy-dandy adapter plate that was already between the motor and trans. I got all the mounting holes drilled for the transmission, but when I moved on to attack the electric motor part I ran into a problem. I cleaned up the grease a bit, but there is still a bunch in between the fins around the shaft side of the motor. I wanted to get it out of there and clean up the innards of the motor, but I could not get the freaking thing out! I have another motor very similar to this, and when I remove the bolts on the shaft side, I can just pop it right out of there. I tried prying to the point where I was afraid of bending the aluminum (I got one big pop in the right direction, but then it moved no farther) and I tried using a punch to whack the other end of the "center spinny part" of the motor where there is a hole in the aluminum endcap. No dice. Wish I could get pics, but not today. It's an ADC a89-4001 6.7" series wound motor...pretty much all advanced dc motors look (black middle and aluminum end caps) and probably act the same. Any ideas? I already feel I was a bit rough with the pounding considering what sometimes happens to refrigerator magnets when dropped...

Daox 02-04-2010 07:19 AM

Perhaps use a pulley puller?

Wonderboy 02-04-2010 09:37 AM

I actually tried doing that, but there's not really anything to push/pull on. The entire endcap and shaft all come out as one piece, so there's nothing to hold on to on that end, and I'd have to make a big hole or somehow convert the size of the puller so that it fits in the little hole on the commutator endcap. Does anyone know if there is a risk of demagnetizing or harming anything by whacking parts of the motor or housing with a hammer?

Christ 02-04-2010 10:41 AM

Well, from rebuilding starter motors, I know that the number one cause of irreparable damage is the "hammer trick", wherein people somehow think it's a good idea to whack the button on the back of the starter with a hammer, even though there's a compressed ferrite powder magnet on the inside of the housing with no cushion against the impact.

That said, you're working with a slightly larger motor, but you're probably better off using a deadblow hammer or a rubber mallet, or at least using a wood dowel to absorb some of the impact shock.

Wonderboy 02-27-2010 07:24 PM

I'm a little bummed out by this:
http://i47.tinypic.com/1t3mag.jpg
I was trying my best to be gentle prying the endcap off, but I was not gentle enough, as it would seem. I hope that the endcap from my other ADC motor will suffice to replace this. Even after breaking it, it still won't budge. I got pretty aggravated about it and had to go do something else. It seems like the bearing in that endcap is either really stuck in there, or not supposed to come out. I don't know why one very similar ADC motor would allow me to remove the goods to clean up while this one wouldn't....I would really hate for this to be a waste of time and energy :( I wish I had Ben's patience for stuff like this.

Christ 02-27-2010 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonderboy (Post 163322)
I'm a little bummed out by this:
http://i47.tinypic.com/1t3mag.jpg
I was trying my best to be gentle prying the endcap off, but I was not gentle enough, as it would seem. I hope that the endcap from my other ADC motor will suffice to replace this. Even after breaking it, it still won't budge. I got pretty aggravated about it and had to go do something else. It seems like the bearing in that endcap is either really stuck in there, or not supposed to come out. I don't know why one very similar ADC motor would allow me to remove the goods to clean up while this one wouldn't....I would really hate for this to be a waste of time and energy :( I wish I had Ben's patience for stuff like this.

It occurs to me that now might be a little late to mention it, but the aluminum end cap will expand faster under heat than the steel armature will... might have been a good idea to hit the end cap with a propane torch for a few mins to expand it a little bit?

It may have been an interference fit, and after years of corrosion and such, may have "bonded" the surfaces.

Wonderboy 12-12-2011 12:04 PM

I Finally got a 24v heavy duty GE motor and the transmission for this car mated! I'm not dead and neither is this project - just very slow :turtle:

I used lovejoy couplers. One fit so well that I had to hammer it onto the transmission, which sort of created its own splines in the coupler. The coupler on the motor fit snugly, and the key fit directly down into a spline groove. If this coupling solution is to work with these lovejoy couplers, it would have to be in this circumstance because fortunately I don't think I could get either of them to fit any more snug. Next is mounting it in the engine bay - be back in a couple years! :P

MetroMPG 12-12-2011 12:38 PM

Will! Nice to read an update.

Say... if I split your earlier posts about your Honda Insight into your own thread will you update that too? I'm curious to know how you're doing with that machine as well.

EDIT: see http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...spd-19759.html

Wonderboy 12-12-2011 12:45 PM

ookie!

Daox 12-12-2011 12:53 PM

Woohoo an update. :)

MetroMPG 12-12-2011 12:57 PM

Woohoo!

New thread for Will to update bi-annually (or whenever it suits his schedule and/or interests): http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...spd-19759.html

Daox 09-05-2013 03:52 PM

Any updates on this project?

Wonderboy 09-05-2013 04:13 PM

The only updates to the physical bits are that the transmission and motor are now mated with a custom plate and a lovejoy coupler. It hasn't been put into the engine bay or propelled the car, but I've powered on the motor and the connection appears to be very true and solid.

Fortuitous you should ask this because I've finally transferred the title to me (I kept the signed previous owner's title because I knew I wasn't going to be putting it on the road anytime soon). The reason I did this is because I'm going to be looking to sell the project if anyone be willing. Not only have I found no need for an EV given my biking lifestyle, but subsequently no need to try building one. Similar applies to the CRXFi - I have a perfectly good Insight that I use for occasional in-town cargo trips and long highway trips. No need for a minimalist CRX that it's difficult to hear audio books in due to all the paneling being removed. Could paneling be added? sure. Do I have an interest/time in doing that? Nope. I'll also be selling the CRXFi and a 91 Civic HB that comes with a free additional (but title-less) parts car. Posts in the FS section to give EM members the first crack at it are forthcoming... Everything must go!

Daox 09-05-2013 04:41 PM

What are the specs, dimensions, and weight of the motor you're using?

Wonderboy 09-08-2013 12:20 PM

The motor is a 36v A89-4001, as described here and apparently extremely similar to the motor described here

MetroMPG 09-09-2013 10:13 AM

Must feel good to be cleaning house.

Hope the various projects go on to greatness in new owners' hands.

P-hack 04-25-2014 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG (Post 141921)
...
I've also seen some conversions cleverly slice the end of the ICE block off, and use that as their adapter plate!...

Got any links? would love to see one.

MetroMPG 04-25-2014 09:33 AM

No, sorry. That's long receded into the foggy memory banks. It was probably something that came up on the EV discussion list.


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