World's first hybrid - Porsche Semper Vivus
 

The 1900 Lohner Porsche Semper Vivus was the world's first gas-electric hybrid, with two 3.5hp electric hub motors. A later version had 4 hub motors, making it the first 4-wheel drive car. The 80 volt bank of 44 batteries weighed in at 1800kg and could not be charged from an external source (as in today's plug-in hybrids) but instead was charged with a rear mounted internal combustion engine.

In 1898 Ferdinand Porsche (only 18 yo at the time) constructed an efficient electrical motor small enough to fit inside a wheel, and two years later built the Semper Vivus with Austrian carriage builder Ludwig Lohner & Co.

Porsche Semper Vivus Hybrid - CarSession.com

Lohner Porsche Semper Vivus

Porsche Semper Vivus - Interia.pl

:D Looks fun.

In the first picture, is that a brick wall where the radiator usually is?

Thats some pretty slick engineering right there.....

AND..... LMAO at this question:

That's what it looks like:confused: My only guess is that it may be to add weight to the front wheels for traction.

Also, both pictures suggest that the engine is in the front, while the info I found stated that it was rear-mounted. I'm willing to bet that there were a few units built, each slightly different. The second, color picture is a restored version from this year's Geneva show.

This is incredible how much this man was ahead his time...

Another page with 3 pictures :
The 1899 Lohner Porsche, the first Hybrid Vehicle?

Have fun,

Denis.

Yeah, like over 100 years ahead of his time.

So does this mean that GM has to pay royalties to Porsche over the Chevy Volt now? :confused:

In a time where most carriages had one horse, this was brilliant.

Bob Wilson

More info in texanidiot25's thread.

No, because the lifetime of a (US) patent is only 20 years.

Indeed, it's just the opposite: GM might not be able to validly patent certain parts of the Volt because Porsche had already done them, making it "prior art".

This is not really a hybrid when only the electric motors power the wheels. It's the same principle behind diesel-electric train engines. Keep the combustion engine at a constant load where it works optimally in order to generate electrical power.

It's kinda like what the Volt was supposed to be.

This *is* a series / serial hybrid; not a parallel hybrid. It really is a hybrid; just a different kind of hybrid than we are used to.

No, it's just the opposite of a diesel-electric train, where the electric motor/generator is only acting as a transmission. (If trains are hybrids, then so is every car with an automatic transmission a hydraulic hybrid :-)) The Porsche design had both batteries and an IC engine.

If there are batteries or capacitors involved, then it is a series / serial hybrid. In fact, it is the electricity that is the "transmission" between the genset and the electric drive motor, so that is a hybrid, too.

Two types of motors are involved in moving the vehicle = hybrid.

How many times does it have to be explained to you? Two types of energy storage NOT involved (i.e. batteries and diesel) = NOT hybrid.

Are you saying the torque converter makes automatic cars a hybrid? you would make the term completely meaningless. It is about storing/reusing braking energy, regardless of the conversion processes.

Hybrid train - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"uses an onboard rechargeable energy storage system "

Does it make sense now?

Can an automatic transmission provide power?

Two (or more) types of motors = hybrid.

Can a motor provide power without electricity? Same deal. A torque converter is half hydraulic pump (generator analog) and half hydraulic motor.
Transmissions 101, a prep course...

Wrong, so stop saying it unless you embrace misinformation = irresponsible melonhead.

Motors are motors, and transmissions are not motors. The transmission is not a power source.

By your definition, a Prius is not a hybrid -- where does the electricity in the battery come from?

in part from regenerative braking, or from the wall.

If it did not recapture braking energy (or occasionally allow use of a wall socket), hybrids would get really crappy mileage with all that dead weight and complexity.

But neither is the motor/generator in a standard diesel-electric locomotive a power source or storage of any kind. It serves exactly the same function as the gears in a manual transmission, or the hydraulics in an automatic, simply transmiting power from engine to wheels while allowing the rotation speed of each to vary.

Edit- NVM, dumb mistake on my part

Power source is not the same thing as an energy source. And engine or a motor is a power source. Fuel or electricity is an energy source.

Two different types of power sources, combined in some fashion i.e. hybridized is the definition of a hybrid.

In a standard Prius (not a plugin) even the regenerative braking energy came originally from the gasoline burned earlier. So, if your definition of a hybrid (two different energy sources) is correct, then how is a Prius a hybrid?

The original Porsche was a series (aka serial) hybrid and all the energy in the batteries came from the engine. And a Prius is a parallel / series hybrid, since it can operate in EV (using energy put in the batter by the ICE and/or regen), ICE, and combined, too.

Not doubting you rofl, but can you provide a link to what you are referring to?

It sounds like confirmation of the inefficiency of electric regen on the surface though (soaks up plenty of braking energy but doesn't return much of it).

Either way, it is the rechargeable nature of the battery (or the accumulator) what makes a hybrid useful and not just a very lossy transmission (aka generator/pump running a motor).

The original porsche had batteries.

You should be doubting me, was off by an order of magnitude in the calculation! ;) I used 1300N instead of 13000N for the weight of a 3000lb car. It looks like it's about half the mileage increase on the city cycle with the other half coming from operating only at high load and engine stop/start.

Well a train without batteries doesn't recapture and store that braking energy, or otherwise allow the vehicle to move without the diesel engine being on. If you take the batteries out, then a series hybrid is not a hybrid anymore, it is an electric version of a torque converter, instead of a pump and a motor you have a generator and a motor.

The storing of energy allows more efficient (hybrid) energy management schemes, and not just losses from weird transmissions.

Diesel runs a generator, generator powers AC induction motors, and also charges a battery bank. EDIT: foot inserted into mouth, i was thinking of the new GE Evolution Locomotives.

that's a very long stretch since the Locomotives use Hydraulic motors instead of viscous fluid clutches, but yes you would technically be correct

Back when I was logging, we used to use rough-terrain forklifts that had a diesel engine driving hydraulic motors that turned the wheels.

Wait, I take back my take back! I was using force instead of mass, so while a Prius does have ~13000N of force it only weighs ~1300kg. 25 or so stops from ~11m/s (my guesstimate for the average speed to a stop on the FTP-72) is ~2 million Joules or ~.55kWh worth of energy. I figure round trip efficiency is only ~50%, so that's a contribution of ~.28kWh of energy, which would ordinarily take ~.84kWh of gasoline. The car uses ~7.7kWh of gasoline, so regen probably improves efficiency by ~10+%..

I think the William Arnold & Sons 1897 car was the first. On the bottom of page 13 of this link it states...."William Arnold & Sons built Benz-like cars with their own 1.5 hp engines. One was fitted with the first electric self-start dynamotor, which also assisted the engine on hills."
Pioneer Vehicles for Car the Definitive Visual History of the Automobile
The single cylinder motor was ONLY 1,190 cc and the car would run 16 mph