World's only Diesel Honda Insight
 

Just completed a 1.2L TDI install in a 2000 Honda Insight on Friday (17JUL09). As I suspected, the Insight is a much better car with diesel power. The jury is still out on fuel mileage but 100 mpg doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility. Take a look at Red Light Racing for build details. More pictures of the completed car and associated components should be added soon. I've started a fuel log of the car on this site. I've cracked the top ten. However, I still need to get the hybrid side of the car working which should increase efficiency 10-15%. The first video of the car can be found at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgELfyYsxyM .

Best wishes,
Jake

Could you give us a quick rundown of the specs on the TDI you put in? Will be interesting to see how the mileage does in the winter.

Good job, and welcome to ecomodder :thumbup:

Wow!

...pardon my ignorance, but is that a Honda diesel from an Asian model or what?

It is a volkswagen engine, AFAIK, 1.2 TDI, not sold in the states, though plenty of folks here would love to have one.
Volkswagen Lupo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

...wow! a cross-pollenated engine swap is usually NOT all that easy/simple...as would be within a brands own power-plant offerings.

Amazing job they did though. It averaged 92 MPG on the cross country trip even without the electric motor? That's the way I remember it I think.

Sounds like a great project! It should highlight the dynamics of the Insight's chassis and body irrespective of the engine.

Would it be feasible to chuck out the electrics and batteries to save weight, rather than use them in combination with the TDI engine?

To use the electrics or not to use that, that's the age old question I think. I've always thought it seemed inefficient to have that extra weight and mass to move around and not worth it, but apparently it works so I was wrong.

I'm sure someone else will come up with a much better answer. I see your point though.

I believe a good (and patient) driver can outperform the hybrid systems, just by anticipating obstructions and not putting him/her self in a position requiring much braking, and accelerating efficiently.

But a big part of the xprize is businessy stuff so the electronics allow you to compensate for a "bad" (typical) driver and leave the engine off and recover some braking power and play well with others in certain traffic conditions, at the cost of conversion losses and weight (and cost and complexity).

Insight driver's often report better mileage with the IMA shut off, but they also report that the car is painfully slow in that configuration. So I imagine having the hybrid system out with the reduced weight would also yield better mileage. I plan to test this on the CRX when I get the insight stuff going, by doing some comparison with the stuff in, completely out, and in but disabled. We'll see!

Auto stop/start makes a huge difference I'm sure. I'm not saying that's the sole culprit but the 5 speed Insights get far better mileage than the CVT models, which don't have that function.

I was sitting at a stop light the other day when this hit chick pulls up in a Mercedes E-class coupe and of course I tried not to stare but still ended up paying more attention to the blonde than the car. That was before the turning lane arrow came on. I had my windows cracked a little and I heard this gnarly cluttering sound for a second then the turbo spools up and off they went as I was just like woah!! Ha ha, I mean it was obvious it was an auto stop/start function but I had to see it in real life to even know about it, which is rare for an auto enthusiast right?

The point is even Mercedes is taking note of how much efficiency they can get out of that concept and have already put it into their cars. Diesels nonetheless and with a little reading I found out that they might even put auto stop/start into some V6 or V8 models, to which I say rock on Mercedes. And why the hell haven't all automakers been doing this for decades now!!?

1.2l Tdi
 

The VW 1.2L TDI that we used from the project came from a VW Lupo 3L. The Lupo 3L was only offered in the European market (of course). As far as specs on the engine go:
Engine code - ANY
Type - 3-cylinder inline
Displacement - 1191 cm3
Bore / stroke - 76.5 mm / 86.7 mm
Compression ratio - 19.5:1
Firing order - 1-2-3
Engine management - Bosch EDC 15 P
Fuel - Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel
Exhaust gas aftertreatment - Exhaust gas recirculation and oxidation catalytic converter
Exhaust emission standard - Conforms to exhaust emission level D4.

Any issues running the not so low sulphur diesel found in the US?

It would be bad because, from what I've read, extra carbon can build up in just about anything on the exhaust side and cause things to fail. I'm being very vague here because I don't want somebody to come along and say "that 1.2 doesn't have that part" and because I admit I don't know that much about that particular engine as well. I know for sure that using anything other than ultra low sulfur diesel in a variable turbo diesel application that calls for it will start to clog up the moving parts on the variable volume turbo causing it to fail. I'm sure people use the wrong diesel in some applications and get away with it because I've read there are already laws saying you have to use what your vehicle calls for, presumably because people were using "farm equipment diesel" in their passenger vehicles to save a few bucks. It's been a long time since I looked at the particulars of oil burning but there are several good forums you can go on. Here's one:

Diesel Vehicles Currently Available in U.S. — Diesel Technology Forum

Regenerative braking is something I wish I had in my car. If my super awesome P&G gets cut early, regen and then using that off the start for my next pulse would be great.

I thought all diesel in the US had to be ULSD starting a year or 2 ago? Maybe I'm mistaken.

Great work on the swap!

...it was mandated in October 2006.

Ulsd
 

We're running Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel (less than 15ppm). According to Wikipedia (Ultra-low sulfur diesel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) the Euro IV emissions standard in effect since 2005 required a sulfur level of 50 ppm. So, our ULSD fuel in the States would appear more than sufficient for the 1.2L given that is was meant for a 2000 VW Lupo 3L sold to the European market.

Best wishes,
Jake

For anyone that still curious, NO, all diesel is definitely not of the ultra low sulphur variety. I took this picture just over a year ago (as reflected by the prices). It was up in the mountains of N. GA where time kinda slows down a little. Some of these guys were sharpshooting my use of the word dirty diesel too but I didn't mean that agriculture diesel was actually dirtier. Maybe I should've said sulpherier. I say stop sharpshooting people on the way they word things, especially if you don't know what you're talking about.

Two types of diesel fuel sold in Georgia: Off Road, On Road - ToyotaDiesel.com

Wow ! Youv'e just built my dream car.

Now for the question everyone is wondering : How did you manage to sneak an "illegal" engine through customs and get it to pass inspection once installed in the Insight ?

Thanks

Illegal engine
 

Actually US Customs and the EPA know all about what I'm doing. I filled out the required forms and got permission to import a Lupo 3L and perform the diesel conversion on my Insight. Let me tell you, reading the Clean Air Act is not a good time but if you're determined there's a way to do what you'd like and still operate within the framework of the law. Since I don't have the deep pockets that Uncle Sam does I thought it best to comply with regulations or find exceptions when possible to stay out of the Federal court system.

There are some who look at the project and wonder what the big deal is since we only swapped an engine. The big deal is working your way through all the details necessary to make the swap happen in the first place. Operating as private individuals makes the details quite challenging.

Best wishes,
Jake

Did I miss the pictures?

EDIT: found them.

Thanks to Eric Smith and an Arduino microcontroller the world's only diesel powered Honda Insight is now the world's only diesel hybrid Honda Insight. The hybrid side of the vehicle is now fully functional. Auto stop, regenerative braking, and electric assist all function the same as they did in the Insight before we swapped engines.

The electric assist makes the car a much better driving vehicle especially in NW Washington where there are substantial hills. The gear ratios of the Insight are pretty long and the diesel was tuned to keep the turbo out of the equation until approximately 2000 RPM so climbing hills was tough without the electric assist. With the assist it's like having the turbo available right off idle without sacrificing fuel economy.

The jury is still out on how much of an improvement the hybrid side of the vehicle makes to fuel mileage. This week (week of 14SEP09) I'm heading down to The World of Speed (Bonneville) to see what the car will do flat out. Over the 900 mile transit there will be ample opportunity to gather some data. Keep an eye out for the results as well as another video or two featuring the Insight 1G (1 gallon/100 miles).

Best wishes,
Jake

Sweet, you (or Eric) should definitely put a blurb up on arduino.cc about your arduino based hybrid controller being used in the xprize, I'm sure it would be well received.

The thing I like most about this project is just how easy it is to relate to it. I know you have a few mpg to go to qualify, but it seems like a real no-nonsense approach.

Plus.... It's a diesel hybrid! :D I don't understand why this isn't readily considered viable.

Same reason we don't have diesel in a lot of other places I guess.

That is quite amazing, using and Arduino to make the hybrid IMA system fuctional? Really?!? Stick that in your eye, auto companies! May the 1G live a long healthy, green life, and promote the benefits of diesel and electricity together!

Thanks! I couldn't have said it better.

I always suspected the Honda Insight could get better fuel economy, even their 2009 Hybrid is rated at 43MPG (I think).

It's not that it isn't viable, just expensive and doesn't offer a whole lot in the way of gains compared to a hybrid or diesel. Diminishing returns and all that.

Electric - Biodiesel baby ! :thumbup:

I wonder what kind of mileage the Aerocivic would get with a diesel engine from the Polo, or conversely what kind of mileage the Insight 1G would get with extensive aero mods installed. Currently, my 3 tank average is only running 3mpg below that of the Insight 1G

This is awesome!

For all those interested I've posted another YouTube video about the Insight 1G. This one shows the full hybrid functionality of the vehicle. The video can be found at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gQRbuZoVzM .

Best wishes,
Jake

Looks amazing. So what have you done mated the TDI to the insight gearbox?

I have just picked up a Lupo 3L this weekend. I didn't realise the turbo didn't come in untill 2000rpm i really could not tell when driving at all although i really have to take it our of auto to climb some of the very steep hills but the diesel is a hell of a lot better than my regular 1.4 100bhp petrol Lupo. I have to be at about 4,000-5,000rpm to pull up the hill very steep hills well in that. The 3L is 830kg what sort of weight is your insight with the TDI in?

re-gen braking and electric assist would be ideal for me as i go up and down some very steep hills on most trips.

Are you able to control the engine map as with the 3L?

Insight tranny
 

We mated the TDI to the Honda Insight electric motor which is then mated to the transmission.

As a result of our ECU strategy we only had room for one tune at a time. In the interest of best fuel economy we put the Eco tune into the ECU. With this tune the turbo doesn't really come on line until 2,000 RPM+. We do have the ability to change the ECU tune for more power.

The Insight with TDI weighs approximately 907 kg.

Best wishes,
Jake

Really amazing. Best of luck getting all of the kinks worked out.

80+ MPG is great!... have you considered showing this to anyone at Honda? Maybe they'll take notice?!

The oil pressure light should be a simple fix, I'd think, that only required using the original oil pressure sensor from the Insight motor in one of the TDI's oil passages, like the one that goes to the turbo. You could tee the line and put the sensor right in it.

Common sensors
 

No. We haven't shown the car to anyone at Honda. I'll see if I can't find a good address and send along a note. I have a feeling Honda won't respond. I haven't had a large company respond yet to anything I've sent along. Small fish, limited capital, crackpot idea and all that.

I'm working on finding a Bosch sensor to fix the nuisance oil light problem. After doing a little research it seems Bosch makes sensors that are normally open or normally closed under pressure depending on what different auto manufacturers specify. I just need to find the right one and I should have the problem solved (assuming the connector isn't different; we'll see).

Best wishes,
Jake

I think you need an oil pressure sensor from an Audi. There's a guy that used a TDI engine in his Caravan, needed an Audi gasser sensor because it was different, but threaded right in.

As long as the new plug has the same number of wires, it shouldn't be a problem, right?