Xringer's Prius C
 

We hope to be picking up our new Prius c2 this afternoon..
It's in Red.. :)
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...riuscone13.jpg

It's already got Vortex generators, and that's all my wife is going to need.. :o
She's not going to want any of the Mods that I would put on my car.. :(

I reset the trip meters and my wife took her first drive in late afternoon traffic in Lexington MA.
It was slow going, and we got way more EVing than I expected.
She started off doing pretty good, then lost interest in my hypermile lecturing.
Once she learns not to brake heavily and avoid jackrabbity starts,
I think she's going to be able to do that same loop at 80 or 90 mpg..
Maybe even triple digits, if it's a nice warm day.. :)

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1.../CRV/68mpg.jpg

Wow - that's impressive. Congrats, Xringer.

I got 65 MPG highway yesterday with about 35 % of it on 40 MPH roads.
The rest was at 50 to 60 mph.

Today we went to Somerville MA (17th most densely populated incorporated place in the country), where it's very slow, due to millions of cars and trucks, everyone cuts you off, and you are constantly jamming on the brakes.
(An MBTA bus tried to smash us, but I was too quick for the jerk). :p

In drivers Ed classes in Somerville, 85% of the class is about defensive driving..
(That's not a joke, I took their course when I got out of the Navy. Insurance $$ break).

The only thing I did eco on this 20 mile road trip, was press the ECO button.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...ommerville.jpg

With all the hills, I found it a little odd that 62% was in EV mode..
I also found it a bit odd to get up to 40 MPH and see the ICE was off!!

I'm not trying to learn how to Hypermile it, since it's my wife's car..
But I think she might end up getting 65 to 75 MPG, if she makes the effort.

She seems to like the idea of only buying gas once a month..

Xringer - hope you don't mind I split your Prius C posts into a new thread (in case you want to keep us updated).

Sure thing! I just posted about our horrible traffic test this morning..
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post307201

Yesterday we did a highway run.. Not sure if I posted much about it, as I am old and post at a few sites.. :(

My wife did the outbound and I drove back. I got 65 MPG using mostly cruise control.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...CRV/WFsite.jpg

We are really starting to like this little car!! :D

(Moved over the other post.)

It's an impressive machine, that's for sure.

The cruise control was something I questioned, when I asked the Toyo dealer about the Prius C "one" he went on about its only a fleet vehicle and that using cruise control was needed to get the best fuel economy because it hypermiled itself in cruise.

With my short drive going so poorly I am wondering if this is the case?

Has anyone cracked how to hypermile a prius C? I would think at low speeds I should easily be able to crack 80mpg but it didn't work for me and it didn't do it at highway speeds either but I did not use cruise.

The only reason we got the C2 was because the C1 doesn't have Cruise Control..
It's got a one piece rear seatback. No 60/40 split rear seat, & no immobilizer.

The C1 is for sale, and our test ride in this C1 was pretty nice. My wife loved it.. (Just hated the color).. ::eek:
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...V/Habanero.jpg

I need cruise control because of major injuries to my right foot and ankle won't let me drive long distances.


One cool thing I did (Without reading the manual) is stick a USB stick into a socket on the dashboard, press the media button and start playing tunes I copied from my CDs.
There's also a button pod on the steering wheel that allows you to step to the next song, set the volume or select out to the radio or CD player..
I think those controls might be used for cell-phone stuff too..
Not sure, since we don't have a Bluetooth phone.. (Yet).. :snail:

In town (under 40 mph in a gen2 not sure about the C), the Prius is far better off using P&G. Doing so is incredibly simple. The engine will run until it is warmed up. Then, simply accelerate up to desired speed, let off the gas pedal, then slightly apply a tiny bit of gas again. The engine should die and you're coasting. When you're ready to pulse again simply press down the pedal more. Rinse and repeat. Its very pretty easy to hit 100+ mpg in my gen 2 using this technique.

At speeds higher than 40 mph I almost always just set the cruise and go. There are some techniques out there to improve highway mileage, but I haven't had luck with them. Cruise always seems to be able to beat my foot (not by much, but it does) and its much easier on long trips to just use the cruise.

The C is even easier, it has an engine kill switch labled "N"

Anyway
How much throttle to get 100mpg? The C always seem race the engine when I tried to P&G because the battery was always dead (no regen when you coast).

If you are gliding correctly you shouldn't be using any battery power (though it is easy to use if you don't pay close attention), and shouldn't be draining the pack hardly at all. I use the scangauge to monitor if I'm using power or regenning, its an X-gauge that you have to program in. Its much more accurate than my OEM display as it shows you actual amps in and out of the pack. I think the newer Prius' have a bar that shows assist/regen, right?

I also use my scangauge to monitor my acceleration. I normally accelerate around 2000-2400 rpm. I have yet to see a BSFC map for the Prius C's engine, that would show you the optimal rpm range to use.

I guess using N is what's killing the battery. When I'm driving, this display
http://asset2.cbsistatic.com/cnwk.1d...20_610x458.jpg

is constantly showing arrows depicting the flow of electrical power into and out of the battery.
The SOC is always going up and down as I drive.

When I'm coming up on a stop, just getting off the gas regens..
And around here, we come to a stop many-many times during most trips..

Ah yes, I forgot to mention that. The Prius does not use regen in neutral!

I guess that you would really need at least a 1/4 of a mile to P&G or coast in 'N'..

In the big city, when the stops are 1/8 of a mile apart.. Regen is needed,
so you can get a nice EV launch off your stops.
And if you never get up over 45 MPG (between stops) and have a good SOC,
you are going to get some major EV, between stops..

On my little drive I used regen whenever I needed to brake because the C has a real shifter its easy to shift back and forth and into B as well. (but most of my stops were from 10mph or less) I found I could stay into EV mode a long time with 2-3 bars per the display putting along at 10-18mph on side streets. (if I pushed the gas pedal to go much faster the motor wanted to start)

I did get a fairly decent amount of EV range despite the fact I never went over 3bars on the battery, I find it odd that I didn't get even better than I did as driving somewhat similar in my cobalt would have been in the 60's FE wise.
I guess the 8mpg starting FE than my poor driving behavior out the door probably killed the trip fuel economy :(

I think if I got the car I would eventually sort out how to drive so the thing isn't racing to charge the battery at 25mph getting 12mpg.

I just went over to the dealership (about 6 miles) and got 70 MPG on the way over.
Everything was smooth and had minimal braking.

On the way back, the nuts came out of the woodwork. Horrible drive.

Got the inspection sticker on the car, but MPG dropped to 55 on the way back.. :o
The big hill didn't help much either..

In regular east coast city driving conditions, I think you can do pretty well.
Just turn on ECO, don't jack rabbit and coast up to stopped traffic, lights etc.
Besides those two things, it's pretty much like regular driving,
but you get very good MPG..

I have not yet heard of anyone getting in 90-100 Mpg range..
The way the 'c' is set up, it might not even be possible to do during a normal commute.

I'm sure there are some who will be able to do it, but the catch is how you define a "normal" commute (and how many cyclists would pass the car along the way! :D ).

It's a very fun sounding car.

I am wondering if a Gen II is actually more hypermilable than the C.

I won't be in for a while, hopefully by then someone answers that question.

I was amazed today when I saw another Red c 2 at the dealership today..
Why was it still sitting there?? I was temped to ask if it was sold or not!
It didn't have any paint chips on the hatch, like this one! :(

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...RV/PriusC2.jpg

If they gave it at the right price a few paint chips would be fine by me :)

gate pass
 

Worked on my chips this afternoon with some touch-up.. Doesn't look half bad.
I'll have to do all the little micro chips later after we wash the car. (maybe a dozen)?

Got a new gate sticker at work today. It's a short trip over, but hilly in Lexington.
Got 60 something mpg on the way over. Did a trip-A reset and almost hit 70 mpg on the way back. (better hills and a green light).
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1.../labreturn.jpg
It actually displayed 74 mpg about 1/2 mile from the house..

Kinda funny, about the best I can do with the Escape is 24 mpg on that little trip..
Here I was thinking that 24 was pretty good.. :o

Ready for snow..
 

I got the new car already for the next snow storm..
I'm doing this, since I've found out from years of experiencing a complete
lack of real snow, after making preparations for heavy snow fall..
Hence the new snow blower in the fall of 2011 & the resultant El Nino winter.

The mats look a lot like the stock mats, but in rubber..
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...V/P1000438.jpg

The rear cargo tray was rolled up during shipping. So it needs to settle in a bit..
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...V/P1000437.jpg

With the hatch down, you can see how nice the new bumper protector is.. :rolleyes:
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...V/P1000435.jpg
I had add that, because I like the one on my Escape.. (Herman Kane gave me that plate). :cool:

Here's the before pic:
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...r/CRV/dual.jpg

Nice MPG!

OK, I'm officially envious. I actually covet very few cars, but I think this one would be up my alley (if I had the funds!!!).

Glad you're enjoying it so much (and getting such great MPG).

I just put about 13 CDs of music on a mini-USB stick (very short) this morning, and the 'c' plays them nice!
NEW SanDisk 8GB 8 GB Cruzer Fit SD USB Micro USB Flash Pen Drive SDCZ33-008G | eBay
You can use the radio controls to pick out the folder & song you want to play, or you can play them all in random mode.
If you don't like the song that's playing, you can use the steering wheel buttons skip it (and adjust the volume, or jump to radio or CD player).
It's neat to have 15 hours of good tunes without commercials..

We gave Little Red her first wash job this afternoon..
About 5 minutes later I started working on paint chips on the hatch and rear bumper.

I saw a bird fly over. My wife came back from putting away the water hose,
and informed me the front windshield needed to be re-washed. (The hood was wasn't spared either).


http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...birdattack.jpg

My wife laughed and told me the bird poop was a good omen.
It means good luck.. :D

Thanks X ringer!!!! I am looking at this as a commuter car...

Not as good on the highway, but still pretty good..
Here's a highway trip out of town, my wife drove out and I did the return trip..
I did it faster and with better MPG... :)
(Of course, I've got some hypermiler in my blood).

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...CRV/WFsite.jpg
We are about 3 miles from the highway, (30MPG)
We did 55-60 MPH on the highway part.
And the last 5 miles was on a 40 mph country road with hills.

I will be working some part-time in that area this summer, so my wife says I can use her car. :D
I can get over 60 MPG easily.. So it's going to be much cheaper than the Escape, @ 26 to 32 MPG.. And way more fun!!

This morning the odometer shows 255 miles total, with 54.3 MPG.
My wife is still learning, and I think we should see the next tank get better MPGs. 60 maybe.

I think the combined EPA is 49.5 MPG, so we are already 4.8 ahead of the game. :)

Since we've burned about 4.7 gallons, it looks like the car has a 9.5 gallon
tank, and we've got 4.8 gallons left over, a max cruising range is up near 500 miles..

Xringer,

I've got an eye on the Prius C. I'm impressed by its low price, light weight (2500lbs), small engine, and versatile hybrid system. The aerodynamics aren't as bad as most new cars, either. If I had one, I could probably press it into service towing 1000lbs, which means I wouldn't have to rent a truck when I want to move large things.

I'd like to know how much of my commute I could do on electricity with a Prius C. If you start with a full charge, how far can you get around town without engaging the gas engine? Rigging up a grid charger should be fairly easy, and developing an engine inhibitor should be possible.

I'm also interested in the fuel economy at extralegal speeds on the interstate. What kind of numbers does the Prius C generate at 75 mph?

RobertSmalls

I'm not sure you could switch the ICE off & on, and do much better than the car's computer already does.

This 20 mile round trip was done in a very heavy traffic area, with hills.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...ommerville.jpg

You will notice that 62% (12.3 miles) of the trip was done in EV mode.
When the SOC is good, the car will stay in EV mode up to 45 MPH,
until the pack gets low or the hill gets steep etc.
The ICE only comes on when needed. It's so seamless, you can't tell
if it's running or not. You have to look at the power flow display.
I was surprised to see it run for 10 or 15 seconds and turn off.
It's amazing how fast the pack can recharge down hills or by ICE.
During that trip, the ICE may have been on & off 50+ times..

The EV range is short. Only about 1.25 miles.
But a slight downhill EV run can be much longer.
If you just want to move your car around a parking lot, without the ICE,
you just press the EV button when you turn the key to 'start'.
(Which turns on a 'Ready' display). If the SOC is ok, the ICE stays off.

Because of the way the battery is protected from getting a very low SOC,
it will last for many years. The car's computer program changes
the modes of operation very effectively.

The only EV hack I can think of is replacing the pack with a higher AH pack.
But, it's likely the control program would need to tweaked too.
I can't see that you would gain much, unless it was a plug-in.


My first hack idea was to add another 144v pack in parallel..
It might increase the EV range a bit.. Hard to say.
The rest of the system might be totally optimized to run with the pack..
BUT if it was charged from the grid. Maybe..

The plug-in idea might work if when you were coming home, you slowed
down under 45 for the last mile and hit the EV mode button..
When you got home, the pack would be in a lower SOC,
so a charge could be accepted via plug-in.
(Otherwise, the ICE will be doing all the charging).


Making the car lighter might increase it's EV range a bit. Take out the spare tire, tools & etc.?.


Some Prius Chat guys tow boats etc. But Toyota says not to tow at all.
Prius c Main Forum - PriusChat Forums
It will be hard to get warranty work done if you have been towing.

http://shop.tlcentral.com/store/pc/v...idproduct=1060

Not sure about the high speed MPG, but I read about one guy in Florida
who was running around at 85 MPH and complaining about 35 MPG.
You might be able to find out here: Prius c Fuel Economy - PriusChat Forums



The 'c' is the top dog of MPGs today. Only the EVs can beat it. (short range).
If you get a 'c', the most effective way to get the best MPGs is to learn to hypermile.

I just went to the local hybrid group meet the other day. Wayne Mitchel (prius techie) did a presentation on the V and C. The C's range according to him is not even 1/2 mile (which makes sense because its pack is smaller than a liftback). The Prius' BMS won't allow you to drain the batteries under 45% and not above 80% (at least in a 2nd gen), so its not like you can really gain a whole lot by grid charging.

Highway is not where the C shines (not that its bad, just nowhere near your Insight). Wayne said that you're only getting about 60 mpg at 55 mph and it starts tanking once you get up to 65 mph. At 75 I wouldn't be surprised if you were down in the 40s. Its just not aerodynamic enough, and its geared higher than a liftback. In town you'll see much higher numbers as you can P&G very easily. Wayne achieved around 100 mpg in a small loop he does around the meeting site. He did the same loop in his 2010 liftback and got 85 mpg.

I remember something about aerodynamic drag increasing with speed, not being linear.
Something like drag increasing at the square of the speed??

It's real easy to see in the (brick-like) Escape. On a flat road at 35-40 MPH, it gets 40+ MPG..
But on the highway it starts dropping off..
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1.../50mph1642.jpg
It's going to drop down to around 26 MPG at 60MPH and likely be less than 20 mpg at 70 MPH..

Thanks, Daox.

With a Cd of .29[1], I think it's safe to say the aerodynamics of the Prius C are just so-so. The light weight and efficient engine help make up for it, though.

I would expect modest gains from a grid charger, but it wouldn't require much effort, either. The C has a 144V NiMH pack, same as the Insight, which means I already have a charger for it.

If the 1KWh battery currently swings from 80% to 45%, that's .35KWh, which I reckon at 1mi without hypermiling. If you swing from 100% to 45%, it's about 1.5mi. :-/ Not great, but it's low-hanging fruit.

There's a part of me that sees a Prius C as a cheap platform on which to build a reliable plug-in hybrid NEV. I have a 9mi commute. A 10KWh lithium pack should do 20mi, weighs ~150lbs more than the current pack, and costs maybe $4000.

In order to match the road load of my Insight at 70mph, a Prius C with Insight tires would need a Cd of 0.20. That's not easy. Mod for mod, I don't expect the C to ever match the Insight. However, the Insight can't match the cargo capacity and EV potential of the C.

@Xringer: I proudly void warranties. :)

F(drag)=1/2*CdA*rho*V².
So, yes, drag force is proportional to airspeed squared.

Robert, what do you think of installing a second 144v pack in parallel with the existing pack?

If you charge above 80% the car will spin the engine using the electric motors to burn off the excess energy. You really only have 45% to 80% to work with unless you disable the Prius BMS.


Thats a great idea, and thats what I've done with my 2nd gen. The only drawback is the Prius C's limited EV speed. The Prius C's max EV speed is only 25 mph which isn't surprising since its geared higher than the liftback. The 2nd gen Prius has a max EV speed of 34 mph. I'm not sure about the 3rd gen, but I think its quite similar to the 2nd gen.

I think your best bet is going with a 2nd gen. You can get them for under $10k now and besides weighing 400 lbs more than a Prius C they have more benefits IMO (aero, space, used parts).


Installing a 2nd pack in parallel with the original pack has been done and is one of the few techniques (and probably one of the more effective) in making a PHEV Prius.

"The Prius C's max EV speed is only 25 mph "

There must be something wrong with mine, since I was going up a slight hill at 40 MPH, in EV mode the other day..

I read the transition point to EV occurs when you drop down under 46 MPH.
CleanMPG Forums - View Single Post - Is there going to be a section for the new Prius C ?

I'm not sure, but I think I've been in EV mode going down hill at around 50 MPH..

"WS" is explained here.
http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/warpstealth.html

If my understanding of the Prius' powertrain is correct, EV mode should be physically possible up to the top speed, provided the motor can produce enough power to move the vehicle at that speed. The main motor is always spinning when the car is moving, whether the gas engine is on or not. I assume that the cutoff speeds are the point where the motor either can't move the vehicle on its own (in most circumstances) or that it uses too much power to have any kind of range. With a decent size battery and a controller that would allow it, I think the Prius could function as a 100% EV at any speed possible with the gas engine (as long motor can put out enough power to overcome the drag).

cD
 

http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/hp-color.gif

Sweet spot refinement

Seems like the HP needed at lower speeds can be obtained from the pack.
Too bad the pack isn't a bit larger.

By EV mode I mean the mode you enter by pressing the "EV mode" button. You can drive on electric only in 'hybrid mode' after the engine has warmed up, but you can't use the electric motor nearly as agressively as you can in EV mode. You can travel at freeway speeds in EV mode, but not only does the electric motor have to provide power to move the car, it also is going to be providing power to spin the engine which is horribly inefficient. At least in the 2nd generation Prius, once you hit the 41 mph limit, if the engine isn't spinning one of the two electric motors is spinning around 10k rpm. To stop it from grenading (aka to slow it down), the engine must be spun.