ZX25R ANNOUNCED!!!!
 

HOLY **** GUYS! Its here! Its finally here!

https://www.visordown.com/news/new-b...kyo-motor-show

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...7&d=1571886028


For those not in the loop: Why am I so excited? Because this is a bike that throws value out the window in favor of creating an actually usable inline four cylinder bike! 250cc Inline four! The last bikes with this engine configuration were made in 2004, and were detuned naked bike versions of the sport bikes that came before them. None were equipped with fuel injection.

I own a 250cc Inline four. It is from 1988, I got it for $2500. I did not buy it because it was a good deal(which it was..), I did not buy it because I love carburetors....I bought it because it was the ONLY reasonably attainable bike I could find that would let me experience the true joy of a tiny screaming inline four.


Sounds like it will be available in Indonesia and Japan so far, no word on U.S. yet. Hopefully the small but vocal group of mericans' who desperately want a baby screamer speak up and make Kawasaki consider release in the U.S.. My wallet is ready, I will gladly pay $13,000 for a screamer that I can actually use. Allegedly has a steel frame, so hopefully that means they did sufficient cost cutting to position it in their lineup in a way that they can actually market it. Not everyone is as dedicated as me to have a usable screamer. I really don't want a reason to restart the 25 year clock on importing, already have plenty of bikes tempting me, yet so far away!

I've seen power figures quoted between 45 and 60 horsepower, probably gonna be around 50, being realistic here. I'm not hung up on power, I just want my damn screamer with fuel injection and parts availability.

Even if it doesn't come to the U.S. I would probably import one for a track bike.

MPG isn't really the strong suit of a miniature four cylinder bike, probably gonna get low 50 MPGs with the average rider.


I bet Honda is really regretting making a neutered version of the true CBR 250RR right about now..

I’d ride that! Well, if I could ride anything that is...

Physical or mental handicap? :rolleyes:


Something not really discussed yet is how high it will rev. The 90's era bikes pretty much all said they revved to 19,000 RPM, when they actually did a little bit over 17,000. Hopefully Kawi both tells the truth on the tach, and is able to improve on those numbers.

Damn, never questioned my handicap lol... really I don’t have the financial means to also dabble in two wheeled transport mostly for fun, never mind the lack of a place to park one. My friend who rides a couple vintage BMW bikes keeps trying to convince me to grab a bike of some kind to play with. Maybe some day?

Good sales numbers will lead [inexorably] to pieces and parts. I'm curious what other situation could benefit from a new small modern inline four.

UTVs, Fad Ts, small boats?

Even though I wouldn't really deem it cost-effective in Brazil, I'm sure there would be some reasonable marketing perspectives if the local branch of Kawasaki takes it seriously. With so many novice riders picking a 4-cyl just to show-off, and some rumors about a tiered license scheme on its way to get implemented here, it doesn't seem so unlikely to happen...


When I was 13, I used to daydream about fitting a 250cc 4-pot (from the JDM Honda Hornet 250) to a buggy. I'm now almost 30, but I can't deny sometimes I still think about it...

I [day]dreamt about a Fad T with an Indian air-cooled 77"(~1200cc) inline four and an empty chrome radiator shell with a fancy (Motometer?) radiator cap.

Not sure about that Indian engine specifically, but I'm sure this Kawasaki 250cc if backed by some very low gearing to match the RPM at the wheel and the multiplied torque might easily outperform some small car engines, such as the Beetle's or even the low-compression 1.0L version of the Opel Family 1 engine which was fitted to the Corsa which I learned to drive on. It makes me wish a ZX25R even more but, after I spent one week taking care of a French bulldog for a guy who had a motorcycle crash and broke 6 ribs, I'd rather pick just the engine of that crotch-rocket to use in some other application...

Just did some thinking on this, and snowmobiles sound like a possible candidate. Probably a little weak though. Something like a jet ski could be another application, but boats take a lot of power to move, and they tend to be built to a price point. I rode a rental jet ski out in florida, and it would do 43 mph with its 100 horsepower inline 3, plus they cost $6900 brand new. :eek:

They would have to put it in one of those stand up jet skis if it was going to be a sensible option.

This is what I have been waiting for, now that's what I'm talking about.

Love it. When I had my CBR125R I loved every aspect of it- except its lack of power. I always said there was a good market for 250's even as learners, but some of the funnest bikes on the track are 250's. They are so dang light and flickable in the corners.

I wish I could ride again, but unfortunately neck surgery prevents that. Two pins and a brace in the c5-6 ended it. But Im still waving at you all from the cage.

Maybe someday I'll be able to ride again.

I'm not seeing the value here.

I bought my 2001 CBR600 F4i in 2003 for $5k, and it's a 4-cylinder fuel injected bike. My guess is you can pick up used sportbikes for $2-3k these days.

Just don't see the point in having so many cylinders when the engine is so small. It isn't efficient. Sure, you get more power out of the small engine, but at extra expense and worse fuel economy. My 600 probably doesn't weigh much more since it's designed to be lightweight, whereas the baby Ninjas and other 250 bikes don't take weight so seriously.

It is not, and never will be a value bike. Power on a budget can easily had by getting an old supersport like the CBR 1100XX or an older Hayabusa. This bike is for people who want the I4 experience without the ludicrous power that most I4 supersports make, plus it will likely rev higher(sounds cool) than anything else on the market. Well, that's why I want it anyway.

The actual reason for its existence is likely to fill a market niche in countries with insane tax laws on engine size and license restrictions. I doubt it will see U.S. shores, but I can still hope.

I'm not so sure. I'm quite happy with my bikes 1200cc shared between 4 cylinders. All that internal friction, coupled with insufficient capacity to generate the power to make that advantageous seems a bit pointless to me. I do like it though, mad for the sake of it.

Video of its' sound has been posted, including a picture of the tachometer! Red LINE at 17,000 RPM, so i'm hoping Kawsaki has decided to take the truthful route. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8srD...w&index=2&t=0s

It's actual reason for existing and my reason for wanting it are likely different, however I want it because it provides a high revving inline four engine experience without needing to go fast. Definitely mad! :thumbup:

Thought you could power anything with a ROTAX.

Almost lost steering headed north in Michigan on a winter day when a (totally) unexpected snowmobile passed me on the grass verge at over 100-mph.

I took the sound from the clip they posted and ran Audacity's spectrum analyzer on it when it was bouncing at the rev limiter. Strongest peak at 569Hz which corresponds to 17000rpm :)

I would guess 50hp, since 600cc bikes make ~210hp/L with 10% less revs. The ratio was about the same in 1989 between the 250 and 600 bikes.

If this comes to the US, it might get me into motorcycling, even though I'm deathly scared of dying. This bike will only be doing like 45mph at the rev limit in 1st gear which means I can enjoy the sound while lowering my risk of getting killed.

Serial Killer deathly afraid of death... I LOLed.

1. Honestly, I could see this bike. For people with money, who want to ride again, but don't trust themselves with a big super sport anymore. Its hard to keep a license on a 600cc+ haha.
2. It would probably be easier just to throw a restrictor plate on a 600cc like the europeans do though. There isn't really a big weight difference.
3. I've always wanted to drive to Canada and haul a 250rr across the border.
4. Realistically I will probably just get an FZ6 and throw a highway sprocket on it.

I could see my father considering this motorcycle. He usually says a small 4-pot provides a great riding experience.


Some folks are quite obsessed for a smaller, higher-revving little beast, even though a de-rated 600cc could do the very same job at lower revving.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/121...%20supersports.

About 80% the price of a ZX-6R.

Even though you may be able to find someone in the United States or Canada actually willing to buy one, seemingly such a narrow price gap between the 250 and the ZX-6R might seem not worth the expense to certify it as a captive import. It's likely to be a strong seller in Japan mostly due to both the tiered licensing and lower taxes for motorcycles up to 250cc, and AFAIK some other Asian countries have some regulations preventing large-displacement motorcycles to achieve greater volumes. Australia also has a tiered licensing which may provide good market opportunities for it too.

$10,300 converted from NZ money, interesting. The ZX6R is $10K in the U.S., obviously this would be far from a value oriented sale, but it MIGHT be possible to sell. I dunno. Every time I see the uninitiated talk about this bike they keep thinking it will be a cheap entry into the I4 super sport category. Hopefully the sky high rev limiter and track ready focus would entice track racers here, maybe even start a stock racing category for them.

The benefit I see to the 250 is that with only 50-55hp, you'll be able to actually use the 17000rpm on the street. For me at least, if it's say 8k for the ZX25R, that's only 3k for a massive engine upgrade from the 5k Ninja 400, and 3k is chump change in car land.

Same reason I would rather drive a Porsche Cayman than a Corvette (even ignoring the interior luxury factor). The Corvette is way faster for the same money, but that actually becomes a problem when you can't enjoy the power. I've driven Teslas before and I understand the fun of crazy acceleration, but only being able to keep your foot down for one second at a time kills most of the fun.

"I like to drive comfortably, both feet flat on the floor."

All I can say is: Teeny. Tiny. Pistons.

Akropavic leaked a dyno graph early. Stock the ZX-25 makes 41.4 hp / 15,350 rpm and 15.3 lb-ft at 12,700 RPM at the rear wheel.

The illegal racing exhaust adds 1.3 hp

https://i1.wp.com/www.asphaltandrubb...94%2C996&ssl=1

Ah, so it's coming in under 50hp. That's a little disappointing, basically exactly the same as the old 250cc 4 cylinders from 30 years ago.

Not really surprising that it didn't get close to the super optimistic 60 hp I kept hearing people parroting. I guessed it would have 50. 41 wheel sounds like around 46 crank horsepower. Still unknown if there are models with different power levels. Obviously newer emissions standards don't tend to allow sky high compression ratios, this is probably sub 11.5:1. The CBR 250RR had a 11.5:1 CR. My MC19 is at 11:1.

Unknown as of yet, but if it has chain driven camshafts, the heads could be milled to increase compression. The Honda I4s had gear driven camshafts which make head milling impossible. Any decrease in clearance would make the gears bind.

Not only compression ratio, since nowadays there are much restrictions on the exhaust stream on newer engines.


I wouldn't really hold my breath for this newer engine to have gear-driven camshafts, even though such feature would be quite interesting.

Uh wait, how are emissions standards pushing compression ratios down? CBR-1000RR is at 13:1. NOx aftertreatment is mandatory, not an option.

I did forget the earlier bikes were carbed and have no cats, so that's one less handicap to make up for the poor fueling control. Still, if the ZX6R is making 200 hp/L, I was hoping for the same from the ZX25R. I guess it's hard to win against friction.

I would think that gear driven camshafts are actually more likely because the stroke is short. It probably has around 35mm stroke, 75mm of connecting rod, so it's around 115mm to the valves from the crank, which I would think you can span with a single gear.

Considering that even Toyota 1HZ and 1HD engines which are considerably larger had only 3 gears for the valvetrain timing (OHC), it makes sense.

Well, I suppose they could make it work with high compression, but I would expect a much higher HP number with higher compression. The top dollar bikes can get high compression. The CBR600 is sitting around 12.2:1. So the development goes where the money is.

Gear driven cams sound awesome, and are Uber reliable, but cancels any thought of head milling. So they are good and bad. I wouldn’t really mind either way, slight preference to gear driven cause I really doubt I would be tearing the engine down any time soon.

I wasn't aware of any gear driven OHC bikes except for VFR. And I think that only happened because they had some problems with how long the timing chain was for a V4. That stared in late 80's with the VFR750 later 800. I had a 83 V45 Interceptor a short time. Does you 400 have gear drive?

Yes, both the 400 and my 250 have gear driven cams.

Some other bikes I know have gear driven cams:
2000-2006 RVT1000
1986-1997 VFR750
1998-2001 VFR800
1986-1996 CBR250 various models
1989-1990 CB-1
1986-1996 VFR/RVF 400 various models

I was only aware of these and the Hornet 250 fitted with the same engine.

Well, its no 250, but a 400cc version of this bike was announced for the U.S. market!


Attachment 33309


https://www.kawasaki.com/en-us/motor...LIST-_-VEHICLE



I'm a big fan of putting your money where your mouth is. I figured an inline 4 250cc would have to be in the $8-10K range to make sense, and this larger 400 is in that range. Already got a deposit down on one for when it comes in. Looks to be around 80 horsepower, 16,000 RPM, 415 pound curb weight.

I was wondering how they were going to handle component specs, I figured when I was thinking up the potential of one coming to the U.S. it would either have to be a stripped down basic model with cheap components to bring the MSRP down, or a fully equipped top of the line model with adjustable everything and race spec components to entice the trackday bros. Looks like they bridged the gap, fully adjustable rear suspension, but only preload adjustable front. Adjustable levers, up/down quickshifter, dual front discs with radial mount calipers.

Exhaust system is set up in a way that makes it easy to install a slip on exhaust and keep the catalytic converters, which is awesome. Although, if its anything like the Z900 I rode recently, the intake noise is honestly intoxicating enough that I may just keep the stock exhaust on it. I'm more of a fan of quieter exhausts nowadays.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enth...us/ar-AA16Zvml

Glad to see some positive press of it coming out right away. Whenever one of these high spec small displacement bikes is discussed, there is always someone who comes in and says you can get more bike for less money with something bigger. Of course you can, go on craigslist and pick up an early 2000's literbike if you want power on a budget.

I was pretty shocked to see the ZX-4RR is coming to the USA. It will be a market failure that disappears in a few years so buy one now if you want one.

The problem is that the 400cc bike is $9,699 while the 636cc ZX-6R starts at $10,699 and the full out ZX-6R KRT ABS is only $11,799. Most buyer will take the extra CC's and HP for $1,000 to $2,100 more.

However, the ZX-4RR would make a fantastic track day tool. Plenty of HP for the application and you can actually use those 16,000 RPM. This bike will likely hit 65 mph in first gear and topping out 2nd or 3rd gear will be go-to-jail speeds. (The 636 has 1,000 less RPM and hits 120 mph in 3rd)

Yeah I don't see it sticking around for more than probably 3 years, but I still think they will make money off of it. Hopefully first isn't quite that tall, but we'll see. There has been more commotion in the last few years about these tiny four cylinders, so it may do better than you would expect.

I was just going to comment that with those specs, it certainly isn't detuned to get good MPG. As Jason pointed out, the 600cc bikes are all higher performing, lighter weight, for not much more money.

If I were to purchase another sportbike, it would be a liter.