Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-11-2011, 04:01 AM   #1 (permalink)
Engineering first
 
bwilson4web's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 843

17 i3-REx - '14 BMW i3-REx
Last 3: 45.67 mpg (US)

Blue Bob's - '19 Tesla Std Rng Plus
Thanks: 94
Thanked 248 Times in 157 Posts
Diesel mods and testing

One of my favorite auto writers has a multipart series about tuning up a turbo diesel:

Powering-Up the 1.9 liter TDI, Part 1

Powering-Up the 1.9 liter TDI, Part 2

Spoiler alert:

Increasing the air intake charge of a diesel engine, unlike a gas engine, does not increase the power. In fact, it increases the overhead as more work has to be done compressing the larger mass of air.

Bob Wilson

__________________
2019 Tesla Model 3 Std. Range Plus - 215 mi EV
2017 BMW i3-REx - 106 mi EV, 88 mi mid-grade
Retired engineer, Huntsville, AL

Last edited by bwilson4web; 02-11-2011 at 04:14 AM..
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 02-11-2011, 05:10 AM   #2 (permalink)
dcb
needs more cowbell
 
dcb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ˙
Posts: 5,038

pimp mobile - '81 suzuki gs 250 t
90 day: 96.29 mpg (US)

schnitzel - '01 Volkswagen Golf TDI
90 day: 53.56 mpg (US)
Thanks: 158
Thanked 269 Times in 212 Posts
it doesn't make more power until you reprogram the ecu to add more fuel anyway. There may be "smarter" ECU's on diesels out there that would respond without needing reprogramming.
__________________
WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!!!
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2011, 07:52 AM   #3 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
JasonG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Charlotte NC / York SC
Posts: 728

05 DMax - '05 Chevrolet 2500HD
90 day: 18.48 mpg (US)
Thanks: 120
Thanked 56 Times in 52 Posts
With modern diesels fuel is what creates HP.
The extra air is needed to control smoke by fully burning the fuel, creating more go.
I see he is next opening the exhaust. I predict there will be gains but they will be minimal.
When they change to larger injectors and adjust the idle, stand back ! I hope his tranny can handle it.
Properly fuelled they will rip their tranny apart. First the differential goes. Then after you drop $$$ on a Quaiffe or Peloquin, you'll be good to 140-150 before other things start going.
__________________



I can't understand why my MPG's are so low..........
21,000lb, 41' Toy Haulers are rough on FE!
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2011, 09:37 AM   #4 (permalink)
aero guerrilla
 
Piwoslaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 3,749

Svietlana II - '13 Peugeot 308SW e-HDI 6sp
90 day: 58.1 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,329
Thanked 749 Times in 476 Posts
Crossposting:
1.9L VW/Audi/Skoda/SEAT Diesel Mod alert!


Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonG View Post
I see he is next opening the exhaust. I predict there will be gains but they will be minimal.
In a late-2007 series Julian modded a turbodiesel Peugeot 405. The first step was a new exhaust, then a new intake. It appears that latter the gave less results than the new muffler:
Quote:
With the new exhaust fitted, the turbo developed boost much earlier in the rev range. With the new intake, there is a very slight improvement in the revs at which appreciable boost is achieved. However, more noticeable is the way the engine now more freely revs with power. From 3500 – 4500 rpm the power output feels noticeably sharper. (Above 4500 rpm the fuel-cutting rev limiter starts to make its presence sharply felt.)
[...]
While the on-road gain is considerably less than achieved with the new muffler, the engine feels sharper at mid/high revs.
Of course, both of these mods work best in tandem
__________________
e·co·mod·ding: the art of turning vehicles into what they should be

What matters is where you're going, not how fast.

"... we humans tend to screw up everything that's good enough as it is...or everything that we're attracted to, we love to go and defile it." - Chris Cornell


[Old] Piwoslaw's Peugeot 307sw modding thread
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2011, 06:44 PM   #5 (permalink)
DieselMiser
 
ConnClark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Richland,WA
Posts: 985

Das Schlepper Frog - '85 Mercedes Benz 300SD
90 day: 23.23 mpg (US)

Gentoo320 - '04 Mercedes C320 4Matic
90 day: 22.44 mpg (US)
Thanks: 46
Thanked 232 Times in 160 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwilson4web View Post
Increasing the air intake charge of a diesel engine, unlike a gas engine, does not increase the power. In fact, it increases the overhead as more work has to be done compressing the larger mass of air.
Lets get this straightened out right now. Increasing the air intake charge does create more power for a given quantity of fuel burned.

One very informative paper I keep referencing is

http://aerade.cranfield.ac.uk/ara/1937/naca-tn-619.pdf

in figure 8 they show power output with boost pressure for fixed fuel increments per cycle.

In figure 10 they show what a restriction of air intake does to performance.

in both cases the more in the cylinder results in more power out and higher efficiency for a given quantity of fuel.

If you don't buy that because of the age of the report here is a more modern report abstract

Abstract

"Next, a study of the effects of varying boost pressure levels was conducted. For fixed NOx levels, with low-pressure (90 MPa) single injections, soot was found to reduce monotonically as the boost pressure increased. Interestingly, with low pressure double injections and with high pressure (>90 MPa) single injections, soot was found to decrease at first and then increase as the boost pressure was increased beyond the optimum level. This appears to be due to a reduction in the spray penetration and mixing that occurs as the engine gas density is increased. BSFC also reduced monotonically with increasing boost pressure for all cases. These results suggest that variable geometry turbochargers or other enhanced boosting methods will aid in the reduction of emissions and fuel consumption from heavy-duty truck engines. "

there was a better paper but the link is now dead

http://powerlab.mech.okayama-u.ac.jp...4/A6_1_022.pdf
__________________
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ConnClark For This Useful Post:
73ch13 (12-22-2015), TimV (12-22-2015)
Old 12-22-2015, 10:54 AM   #6 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
73ch13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 2

Rolling Coal - '07 Dodge Ram 2500 WT

The Beast - '67 Cheverolet C10-PU LWB
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwilson4web View Post
Spoiler alert:

Increasing the air intake charge of a diesel engine, unlike a gas engine, does not increase the power. In fact, it increases the overhead as more work has to be done compressing the larger mass of air.

Bob Wilson
If this was true, they wouldn't put turbos on every diesel.

Just google, How Turbos Work

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread






Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com