Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-30-2012, 10:29 PM   #1 (permalink)
HocusPocusSlocusGocus
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Detroit, MI, United States
Posts: 27

Slocus - '00 Ford Focus ZX3
Thanks: 1
Thanked 10 Times in 6 Posts
Focus wagon (.30) vs hatchback (.35)

Please excuse me if this has been discussed before. I am trying to figure out the big difference that gives the focus wagon a lower coefficient of drag. The focus is the same from the B-pillar forward, so all of the difference is in the back of the car. The roofline is the same height, and the wagon has equal or as little taper as the hatchback. I wonder if their measurement also included the roof rack.

The things that boggles my mind is that the rear end is slightly longer, but the primary difference is only the rear roofline and hatch. You could count the squared off ledge in the bumper cover as well. In theory, you could duplicate the shape of the wagon easily on the ZX3/ZX5 and drop .05+ off your cD... ?

Sedan:
cD: 0.31
Frontal Area(est): 21.97 sq.ft.

ZX3
cD: 0.36
Frontal Area(est): 21.97 sq.ft

Wagon:
cD: 0.30
Frontal Area(est): 22.24 sq.ft.




__________________
There are two ways to become rich; earn more or want less.
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 07-30-2012, 10:58 PM   #2 (permalink)
GRU
Master EcoModder
 
GRU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Windsor ON Canada
Posts: 373

silver bullet - '00 Honda Civic
90 day: 34.41 mpg (US)
Thanks: 21
Thanked 37 Times in 32 Posts
roof racks improve Cd?!
__________________

  Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2012, 11:15 PM   #3 (permalink)
EtOH
 
Allch Chcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North Coast, California
Posts: 429

Cordelia - '15 Mazda Mazda3 i Sport
90 day: 37.83 mpg (US)
Thanks: 72
Thanked 35 Times in 26 Posts
Those numbers match what I've seen for the first gen. The ZX4 aero must be close enough for rounding because I've seen both .31 and .32 used on different sites. Or possibly some confusion with the second gen.

I don't know the exact angles but I believe the longer body on the wagon has better attached flow and the abrupt end actually help it compared to the ZX3.
__________________
-Allch Chcar

  Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2012, 04:27 AM   #4 (permalink)
Cd
Ultimate Fail
 
Cd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Austin,Texas
Posts: 3,585
Thanks: 2,872
Thanked 1,121 Times in 679 Posts
I 1992-95 Civic sedan had a Cd of .32 , while the hatch had a .31.
The next years model hunchback had the Cd jump all the way up to .36 - the same as the Focus hunchback.

The focus and this hunchback both have a shorter roofline than previous, but surely not enough to add this much drag !!
Perhaps it is due to the rounded off taillights .
Speculating , I would guess that there are some mean vortexes forming here, but then why wouldn't the cars simply have a trip strip of some sort here ??
I'm puzzled too !



Last edited by Cd; 07-31-2012 at 08:28 AM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2012, 09:03 AM   #5 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
NeilBlanchard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,907

Mica Blue - '05 Scion xA RS 2.0
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.48 mpg (US)

Forest - '15 Nissan Leaf S
Team Nissan
90 day: 156.46 mpg (US)

Number 7 - '15 VW e-Golf SEL
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 155.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,475
Thanked 2,950 Times in 1,844 Posts
It's the shape of the trailing edges, in large part, and the length. I owned a ZX-5 and I was disappointed with it's fuel efficiency. My current car has a stock Cd of 0.31, and I have improved it to about 0.27-0.26 or so.
__________________
Sincerely, Neil

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2012, 11:13 AM   #6 (permalink)
...beats walking...
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: .
Posts: 6,190
Thanks: 179
Thanked 1,525 Times in 1,126 Posts
...Kamm backs don't always work well, due to shedding "edge-effect" vortices, etc.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2012, 11:18 AM   #7 (permalink)
Hypermiler
 
PaleMelanesian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,321

PaleCivic (retired) - '96 Honda Civic DX Sedan
90 day: 69.2 mpg (US)

PaleFit - '09 Honda Fit Sport
Team Honda
Wagons
90 day: 44.06 mpg (US)
Thanks: 611
Thanked 433 Times in 283 Posts
The older civic has a slightly dropping roofline before it cuts off, while the new one drops off at the highest point. Bigger rear wake.

Did all the 96+ hatchbacks have that spoiler? If not, air is being dragged down the rear window at the absolute worst angle - about 30 degrees. Either one, a steeper cutoff or a shallower angle, would be better.
__________________



11-mile commute: 100 mpg - - - Tank: 90.2 mpg / 1191 miles
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2012, 11:19 AM   #8 (permalink)
Hypermiler
 
PaleMelanesian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,321

PaleCivic (retired) - '96 Honda Civic DX Sedan
90 day: 69.2 mpg (US)

PaleFit - '09 Honda Fit Sport
Team Honda
Wagons
90 day: 44.06 mpg (US)
Thanks: 611
Thanked 433 Times in 283 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Tele man View Post
...Kamm backs don't always work well, due to shedding "edge-effect" vortices, etc.
Ah, good point. Especially when the roof cuts off early. Side vortices from the remaining downward-sloped corners could interfere with a clean cutoff on top.

Also, the wagon is longer. That gives more time for the air pressure to even out before the end is cut off. (is this called reynolds number?)
__________________



11-mile commute: 100 mpg - - - Tank: 90.2 mpg / 1191 miles
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2012, 06:22 PM   #9 (permalink)
Cd
Ultimate Fail
 
Cd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Austin,Texas
Posts: 3,585
Thanks: 2,872
Thanked 1,121 Times in 679 Posts
Has anyone also noticed that the roofline is apparently longer on the Focus hunchback than the coupe ?
I find it strange that the hunchback has such a high drag compared to the coupe.

It seems that there is some major disturbance in the ...er...forces around the taillights of the hatch version.

  Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 03:59 PM   #10 (permalink)
HocusPocusSlocusGocus
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Detroit, MI, United States
Posts: 27

Slocus - '00 Ford Focus ZX3
Thanks: 1
Thanked 10 Times in 6 Posts
I was contemplating a box cavity taking up the entire hatch area, allowing a section to extend off the rear roof at least 10 inches or so. Then I got to thinking about how much those curved corners must contribute. Thanks for pointing that out guys. I mean here's the evolution of the same type of design (essentially the 'new version' of the same body style), and it's .295 cD! Note the smaller mirrors, and the side profile is slightly different.




Just based on putting this information together, so far I think some small restyling tests on the rear of a 3/5 door 00-07 Focus could make a very large change in the cD. I think this warrants far more attention on testing vs the tire spats or front under panels I've made.

__________________
There are two ways to become rich; earn more or want less.

Last edited by LocoJason; 08-02-2012 at 04:18 PM.. Reason: changed images
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to LocoJason For This Useful Post:
Cd (08-02-2012)
Reply  Post New Thread






Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com