Good thread. Good arguments. Statistics can be skewed any way you want.
Which is cheaper? No one really knows, now do they?
aereohead - i suppose there are no security costs for the magically produced electricity. Let's not forget that some US power plants run off oil. The nuke plants might also have a security cost? The natural gas? The coal industry? Naa, that's just free and has nobody looking over it.
The EV people should keep up the good work. Just remember that when you pound that green drum about what a good citizen you are, you have only moved your carbon footprint to somebody else's back yard. Guess that means you don't give a flyin f about your fellow human or the world in general.
There seems to be a lot of the NIMBY syndrome going on world wide. "I need power for my (insert here whatever, in you cases, cars) but no more generation plants or transmission lines. At least not near ME.
I singled you out because you chose to bring up
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For crude oil transports,total refining energy would have to be factored into the energy expended by the NAVY, Coast Guard,Marine Corps,Seals,ARMY,Air Force,Delta Force,CIA,NRO,NSA,FBI,etc.,would not be reflected into the pump price nor "street" energy balance.In 1991,these costs were estimated at $2.31/gallon.
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The highest average gas price for 1991 was $1.169. So that means the actual price should be $3.479? At an average price of 9.08 cents per kWh in 1991, what do you suppose the actual cost of security on the generation, transmission and distribution was? And what agencies were involved? Now in 2009 what security do suppose might be involved?
Focus on your objective, developing electric vehicles, and stop arguing about who is "better" All vehicles use too much energy and we need to address that. We are way too dependant on foriegn sources of energy and need to address that. Just stop always having to be right or wrong!