[oldbeaver]

Ok, ok.

Please, explain me clear: is water a source or energy or not?

You wrote "water is not a source of energy" ... etc.

But lower, you also wrote "the thermochemical energy of water .... "

We are talking of energy. It doesn´t mater how God put energy inside water, wether by chemistry, thermochemitry, physic-chemestry or whatever means, it is energy.

You also wrote that hydrogen combinated with oxygen IS an energy source.
And what is water? From the best of my knoledge, it is a combination of two atoms of hydrogen with one atom of oxygen... or not?

What we are trying to measure is how much energy-intensive is the process of breaking water into oxygen and nitrogen. If it overcomes, or not, the combustion of them.

You also wrote: "From a physical chemistry standpoint, that means the potential thermochemical energy of water is lower than that of oxygen and hydrogen, at the same pressure and temperature".

I don´t see how it is lower. When I use compression to burn diesel I don´t see why that compression energy will be higher than the energy produced by diesel combusion.

Figures are missing. And "movement is proved by moving", as the Greek said.

If you are right, figures will show it. Don't dispair.

Second, the major gain on using HHO together with diesel (or gas) is that it actuates as a combustion fastening and helper, of diesel itself. They say. I want to see myself.

So we need to measure the whole result of it. In practice, not in paper.

OldBeaver.

Originally Posted by chuckm

I'm going to be a thorough as possible here.
Water, from a thermochemical standpoint, is not a energy source. Hydrogen gas (in combination with oxygen, of course) is an energy source. The process of splitting the chemical bonds between the hydrogen and the oxygen is an energy intensive process, as evidenced by the electrical input requirements. The oxidation of hydrogen gas is an energy releasing process, as evidenced by the heat produced. From a physical chemistry standpoint, that means the potential thermochemical energy of water is lower than that of oxygen and hydrogen, at the same pressure and temperature. The energy balance is one to one; that is, the energy expended dissociating the hydrogen and oxygen would be exactly equal to the energy produced by hydrogen oxidation, but only in a 100% efficient system. Inefficiencies, however, are unavoidable. If any component of your HHO generator gets the slightest bit warm, then your system is consuming more energy than it is releasing in useful (ie motive) energy. Unless the energy to dissociate the water was brought in from outside your car (externally charged battery, solar cell, etc), it is absolutely impossible that there can be a net energy gain. Like I said earlier, TANSTAAFL. The laws of thermodynamics will not be mocked.