Fuel Economy, Hypermiling, EcoModding News and Forum - EcoModder.com - View Single Post

chuckm · 11-01-2009, 06:58 PM

The following is a PM I sent to NeilBlanchard in response to his post.

Regarding the first Apteraforum post: I fully acknowledge that temperatures from ca. 1880 have increased. However, it should be noted that earth was just coming out of the "Little Ice Age." One should hope that temperatures since then have increased! Lookup the following: the Maunder minimum, the Irish famine of 1740-41, the year without a summer (1816 BTW, when the already below average temps were further impacted by a massive volcanic eruption). WRT the Little Ice Age, global warming was a GOOD thing.

It's not that I'm better educated than Hansen... I'm not. I do not pretend to be a climatologist. I do not think I've put on airs like I am one... but I am not utterly unable to read a scientific paper or read a graph of the data. In that regard, can you find fault with the facts I've presented? I know you disagree with my conclusions, but are the facts I've presented erroneous?
For example, is it a fact that, in the past 400,000 years, it has been warmer on several occasions?

Is it a fact that temperatures during the Holocene Climatic Optimum was warmer than present?

Is it a fact that the Medieval Warm Period had temperatures comparable to the present 10 year averages?

Was I incorrect regarding the 8.2k event, mentioned in one of my posts? Was I in error regarding the relative impacts of the various greenhouse gases?

I think Hansen is disingenuous in representing 260-270ppm as "normal," considering that CO2 concentrations have, in earth's history have been much higher. What's normal? The Devonian period had mean CO2 levels of 2200ppm. The Carboniferous period had mean CO2 levels of 800ppm. The Permian: 900ppm. The Triassic: 1750ppm. The Jurassic: 1950ppm. The Cretaceous: 1700ppm. The Paleogene seems to have ranged from 1000-1500ppm. Only in the pre-modern human Neogene and Quaternary periods do we see CO2 drop into the 280ppm range. Interestingly, some of the Neogene and much of the Quaternary is also dominated by glaciation. Thus, what Hansen is defining as "normal" is glaciation. The current temperatures and global ice volumes, however, are not much different than other interglacial periods (see ~125,000, ~300,000, and ~400,000 years ago and, to a lesser extent 200,000 years ago).

11-01-2009, 06:58 PM	#23 (permalink)
chuckm Master EcoModder Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Monroe, LA Posts: 308 Exploder - '02 Ford Explorer xlt Rolla - '02 Toyota Corolla ce Team Toyota 90 day: 44.43 mpg (US) Thanks: 11 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	The following is a PM I sent to NeilBlanchard in response to his post. Regarding the first Apteraforum post: I fully acknowledge that temperatures from ca. 1880 have increased. However, it should be noted that earth was just coming out of the "Little Ice Age." One should hope that temperatures since then have increased! Lookup the following: the Maunder minimum, the Irish famine of 1740-41, the year without a summer (1816 BTW, when the already below average temps were further impacted by a massive volcanic eruption). WRT the Little Ice Age, global warming was a GOOD thing. It's not that I'm better educated than Hansen... I'm not. I do not pretend to be a climatologist. I do not think I've put on airs like I am one... but I am not utterly unable to read a scientific paper or read a graph of the data. In that regard, can you find fault with the facts I've presented? I know you disagree with my conclusions, but are the facts I've presented erroneous? For example, is it a fact that, in the past 400,000 years, it has been warmer on several occasions? Is it a fact that temperatures during the Holocene Climatic Optimum was warmer than present? Is it a fact that the Medieval Warm Period had temperatures comparable to the present 10 year averages? Was I incorrect regarding the 8.2k event, mentioned in one of my posts? Was I in error regarding the relative impacts of the various greenhouse gases? I think Hansen is disingenuous in representing 260-270ppm as "normal," considering that CO2 concentrations have, in earth's history have been much higher. What's normal? The Devonian period had mean CO2 levels of 2200ppm. The Carboniferous period had mean CO2 levels of 800ppm. The Permian: 900ppm. The Triassic: 1750ppm. The Jurassic: 1950ppm. The Cretaceous: 1700ppm. The Paleogene seems to have ranged from 1000-1500ppm. Only in the pre-modern human Neogene and Quaternary periods do we see CO2 drop into the 280ppm range. Interestingly, some of the Neogene and much of the Quaternary is also dominated by glaciation. Thus, what Hansen is defining as "normal" is glaciation. The current temperatures and global ice volumes, however, are not much different than other interglacial periods (see ~125,000, ~300,000, and ~400,000 years ago and, to a lesser extent 200,000 years ago). __________________ "Jesus didn't bring 'Natty Lite' to the party. He brought the good stuff."