Fuel Economy, Hypermiling, EcoModding News and Forum - EcoModder.com - View Single Post - I want to get to the bottom of this ethanol killing my mpg

Nerys · 01-20-2010, 06:18 PM

well shovel. When your the one buying my cars for me and buying my fuel for me then YOU get to decide how I proceed. its pretty simple for me. I see a greater than 3.5% difference in FE between 10% and 8% ethanol!!

Wawa gas is currently around 6-8% ethanol as measured by my little test tube test thingy. Joe's gas in town here is 11% by my little test tube.

On joe's gas I get 40-42mpg on Wawa Gas I get 47mpg. Thats all I really need to know. The only difference "I" am able to measure between the two gas stations is a 3-5% difference in ETHANOL.

all other things being equal YES you should only see a 3.5% drop in FE

alas unlike your little formula'e equations etc.. all things are NOT equal. I believe (NO I can not prove it I am no chemist) that there are unintended consequences to ethanol usage in NON ETHANOL engines that result in greater losses than strictly the BTU differences.

Whether its the alcohol screwing with the computers data for fuel mixture and TRICKING the computer into running much "richer" than it needs to run or some other problem.

if it was ONE CAR I would say 100% yes something is broken on my car. but ALL of them? and the problem MAGICALLY fixes itself when I STOP using ethanol fuel?

sorry the evidence says your full of it.

When I travel OUTSIDE my local area into area's with NO ETHANOL in the fuel I get a simply massive increase in FE.

so tell me. what mechanically in my car magically STOPS being broken simply by putting non ethanol fuel in the car? Explain that to me.

I spent some $300 "fixing" parts in my van before I discovered it was the god damned FUEL doing it. Not the van.

Explain to me how using 3 year old stale PRE ethanol gas in my engine RETURNED my fuel economy back to where it normally is (19mpg in the van 22mpg in the jeep) and the FE IMMEDIATELY went back down to where it is now (16-17mpg van 19mpg jeep) as soon as I ran out of old stale gas and had to go back to ethanol gas?

Explain that to me? the problem is its all anectodal. its VERY conclusive to me but does not help when trying to prove it to everyone else and myself.

SO the only logical and scientifically correct thing to do is TEST IT and to do that I need fuel without ethanol. since i can NOT FIND ANY within a reasonable distance of me and I can not afford (nor do I feel safe) traveling to buy a large quantity. The idea of a 55 gallon drum of gasoline in the back of my van is just a bit unsettling to me and I would need at least 2 drums for any REAL testing. Thats over my "safety threshold" line and way out of my financial means.

now that I Have a metro I only need 9 gallons to "fill up" my car (I typically ise 8.5 to 9.1 gallons to fill when I decide to get gas)

this means I only need to make 10 gallons of gas at a time. this is VERY reasonable and within my means and does not cross my safety threshold line. IE I can make it and immediately put it in the tank all within a few hours of starting.

its worth it to "see what happens"

01-20-2010, 06:18 PM	#128 (permalink)
Nerys Grrr :-) Join Date: May 2008 Location: Levittown PA Posts: 800 Cherokee - '88 Jeep Cherokee 90 day: 19.44 mpg (US) Ryo-Ohki - '94 Geo Metro Xfi 90 day: 50.15 mpg (US) Vger 2 - '00 Plymouth Grand Voyager SE Ninja - '89 Geo Tracker 90 day: 30.27 mpg (US) Thanks: 12 Thanked 31 Times in 25 Posts	well shovel. When your the one buying my cars for me and buying my fuel for me then YOU get to decide how I proceed. its pretty simple for me. I see a greater than 3.5% difference in FE between 10% and 8% ethanol!! Wawa gas is currently around 6-8% ethanol as measured by my little test tube test thingy. Joe's gas in town here is 11% by my little test tube. On joe's gas I get 40-42mpg on Wawa Gas I get 47mpg. Thats all I really need to know. The only difference "I" am able to measure between the two gas stations is a 3-5% difference in ETHANOL. all other things being equal YES you should only see a 3.5% drop in FE alas unlike your little formula'e equations etc.. all things are NOT equal. I believe (NO I can not prove it I am no chemist) that there are unintended consequences to ethanol usage in NON ETHANOL engines that result in greater losses than strictly the BTU differences. Whether its the alcohol screwing with the computers data for fuel mixture and TRICKING the computer into running much "richer" than it needs to run or some other problem. if it was ONE CAR I would say 100% yes something is broken on my car. but ALL of them? and the problem MAGICALLY fixes itself when I STOP using ethanol fuel? sorry the evidence says your full of it. When I travel OUTSIDE my local area into area's with NO ETHANOL in the fuel I get a simply massive increase in FE. so tell me. what mechanically in my car magically STOPS being broken simply by putting non ethanol fuel in the car? Explain that to me. I spent some $300 "fixing" parts in my van before I discovered it was the god damned FUEL doing it. Not the van. Explain to me how using 3 year old stale PRE ethanol gas in my engine RETURNED my fuel economy back to where it normally is (19mpg in the van 22mpg in the jeep) and the FE IMMEDIATELY went back down to where it is now (16-17mpg van 19mpg jeep) as soon as I ran out of old stale gas and had to go back to ethanol gas? Explain that to me? the problem is its all anectodal. its VERY conclusive to me but does not help when trying to prove it to everyone else and myself. SO the only logical and scientifically correct thing to do is TEST IT and to do that I need fuel without ethanol. since i can NOT FIND ANY within a reasonable distance of me and I can not afford (nor do I feel safe) traveling to buy a large quantity. The idea of a 55 gallon drum of gasoline in the back of my van is just a bit unsettling to me and I would need at least 2 drums for any REAL testing. Thats over my "safety threshold" line and way out of my financial means. now that I Have a metro I only need 9 gallons to "fill up" my car (I typically ise 8.5 to 9.1 gallons to fill when I decide to get gas) this means I only need to make 10 gallons of gas at a time. this is VERY reasonable and within my means and does not cross my safety threshold line. IE I can make it and immediately put it in the tank all within a few hours of starting. its worth it to "see what happens"