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Old 05-08-2010, 05:18 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by taredog View Post
Good thread. Good arguments. Statistics can be skewed any way you want.

Which is cheaper? No one really knows, now do they?

aereohead - i suppose there are no security costs for the magically produced electricity. Let's not forget that some US power plants run off oil. The nuke plants might also have a security cost? The natural gas? The coal industry? Naa, that's just free and has nobody looking over it.

The EV people should keep up the good work. Just remember that when you pound that green drum about what a good citizen you are, you have only moved your carbon footprint to somebody else's back yard. Guess that means you don't give a flyin f about your fellow human or the world in general.

There seems to be a lot of the NIMBY syndrome going on world wide. "I need power for my (insert here whatever, in you cases, cars) but no more generation plants or transmission lines. At least not near ME.

I singled you out because you chose to bring up

The highest average gas price for 1991 was $1.169. So that means the actual price should be $3.479? At an average price of 9.08 cents per kWh in 1991, what do you suppose the actual cost of security on the generation, transmission and distribution was? And what agencies were involved? Now in 2009 what security do suppose might be involved?

Focus on your objective, developing electric vehicles, and stop arguing about who is "better" All vehicles use too much energy and we need to address that. We are way too dependant on foriegn sources of energy and need to address that. Just stop always having to be right or wrong!
taredog,great post!
I'm in town and don't have all my materials with me.As usual.
From my memory,I recall an estimate to cover escort costs,Desert Shield,etc.,to get Middle East crude to the U.S.,at around $5.00/gallon at the pump.
Another estimate was over $25/barrel.
I think all production infrastructure incurs security costs.I'm also given to understand that certain industries receive extremely lucrative taxpayer-funded subsidies which are never reflected on a ledger sheet or mentioned at a stockholder meeting.
Personaly,I have no qualms about doing whatever it will take to get our troops back home without the body-bag.
If the United States needs to run a pipeline near me ( they just did two 36-inch Natural Gas lines within a quarter mile ) ,or run an electric grid to connect Wind Turbines,fine by me.It would be zero sacrifice on my part.
I've worked at nuclear facilities and weapons plants.You don't just walk in there.Shipments are 'supervised'.
Power stations are 'gated'.
So far,My EV experience is limited to home solar-PV-charged gell-cell Pb technology.Not much more than educational 'toys.' I haven't used grid power yet.I lived off the grid for 10-years.
If I can mimic the California couple I met at the 1993 Solar races in Phoenix,with a home-charged PV-EV for local commuting I'll be satisfied to some extent.The donar car is a '70 Ghia,chopped-top,with bubble canopy,and some aero.Just low-tech for immediate future.
Perhaps those who will charge their EV,off-peak,with grid power will remember where that power originates and what and who it takes to make that happen.They're not lost on me.
I have no control over what others have, or will do.They're the boss of that.
If I have in anyway,dis-respected the unsung many,who make everything happen for my convenience,then I hope they will accept my apology.
I've attempted to walk the walk, dance the dance, and give something back since 1973.I only can hope I'm on a proper path.
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