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Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard
The 33.4kWh / gallon of gasoline is a direct BTU equivalency. The X-Prize wants to measure the efficiency of the vehicle, so this is completely fair and accurate.
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It's foolish to look at energy passing through the vehicle, rather than energy used on account of the vehicle. It would be smarter to look at carbon footprints, in which case the correct figure is 15.1KWh/gal for grid electricity.
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Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard
Additionally, you must include the oil used for lubrication (or maybe the above numbers already do?).
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I recycle three liters of lubricating oil per ten thousand miles. I will round that to "zero".
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Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard
As far as emissions goes, if electricity has to include the source, generation, and grid losses, then the gasoline also must include the exploration, drilling, refinement, and transportation loses.
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I do account for this. Refining and distribution is 83% efficient. The stuff is called "black gold" for a reason: The energy density of it is mind-boggling. Sure, it takes huge amounts of energy to refine, but the output is far more enormous. Meanwhile, electricity transmission is around 90% efficient, and electricity generation is around 34% efficient as implemented in the US today. You'd be negligent to ignore that last figure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard
The 40gm/km source-to-wheel (including waste disposal, too!) vs the 450-500gm/km for gasoline is comparing apples-to-apples -- electricity has far lower emissions.
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Those numbers are not even close to correct. They're hopelessly optimistic on the electric car (or maybe it's plugged in to a grid like France's low-carbon one) and hopelessly pessimistic on the gasser. Off by a factor of ten.
Neil, I challenge you to tell me the lifecycle CO2 content of US average electricity, and that of a gallon of gasoline. I find these figures to be 600-700g/kWh and ~11000g/gal. (600 to 700) / (11000) = 15-17KWh/gal. Podcasts are not credible sources, but if there are research papers in their bibliography, those are fair game of course.
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This is a very important issue. If people believe that electric cars have zero emissions (the claim has been made, believe it or not), or that 33.4KWh = 1 gal, then people will choose
a plug-in SUV over a Prius. That's not the end of the world, until the price of batteries drops, and someone decides they want an electric vehicle that can go 0-60 in 5.7s and can seat seven in luxury and style while towing a 5000lb boat. If you disbelive that people would ask for such a car, just look at the Trailblazer SS. The BEV version would have a huge carbon footprint and would be an enormous tax on our electric grid.
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Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard
The best thing about EV's is they have the potential for getting cleaner and cleaner as they are used -- because electricity *can* come from renewable sources! Liquid fuels can too (biodiesel, etc.) and methane from biomass is also renewable -- but gasoline as we know it is finite.
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Therefore I applaud (PH)EV hobbyists, and I want to see some (PH)EV's on the road. I also point out that CO2 equivalence, cost equivalence, and lifecycle energy equivalence are poor figures of merit. I encourage you to think about plugging in, even though it won't reduce your carbon footprint much if you're running grid average juice. The fact that it doesn't save energy is okay too, because renewable electric sources are presently viable and affordable while renewable liquid fuels are not.
We must first develop a greener grid BEFORE we begin to plug vehicles in to it on a large scale.