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Nerys · 10-17-2010, 10:48 AM

are you kidding? of course I would then I would flip it for hundreds or if its good enough keep it as a backup :-) remember I already have a Geo Metro. I right now average 50mpg year round. My problem is my government raping me to the tune of a lot of money just to appease the corn lobby and "pretending" its clean green and cheap and renewable when its absolutely none of the above.

My GOAL is to see E10 either go away or become optional.

My skill set is quite a bit higher than the "average" person (by necessity) NOW I can go out and buy a $300 metro and "fix it up" in fact if I had the time, space, and cash I would do it just so I could flip them when gas hits $4 a gallon :-)

I am more interested in overall societal changes. Just because I got myself a nice gas efficient car does not change or make better the society at large problem we have here.

IE I want to help everyone not "just" me (though admittedly helping everyone DOES help me)

SO what happens in 25 years when its damned near impossible to find an operable fuel efficient car that does not cost $20 grand? what happens when there are no longer PLENTY of metro's Civic's etc.. road worthy? what happens when the only option is a pathetic excuse for an efficient car IE a prius or something like that that costs MANY orders of magnitude more than a metro.

IE think long term here. think 5 years 10 years 20 years into the future.

Can you stock pile enough "econo" cars to get you through your lifespan? will it even be legal? How many people could possibly do that?

My goal is this.

I want more of YOU FOLKS to perform these tests.

Assuming everything is above board there will be one of two results. Either my numbers are hogwash and something strange is happening to 7 of our families cars that is all the same and I need to figure out what it is.

I have driven out to colorado and back texas and back michigan and back so I know its not something "local" with the gas.

OR we will find out HEY this really is hogwash and with enough data from enough people I can goto my congress critters and show them. HEY this stuff is crap its killing us economically and ecologically. When they say prove it I want to womp a huge pile of "results" onto the table and say THERE. There is your proof.

will it work? I have no idea. I know they will resist because they make MONEY from this stuff. but at least it will be harder to dismiss and ignore. if ENOUGH people demand the change the change WILL happen.

but so far I have gotten ZERO results. ZERO testing ZERO feedback from anyone else even from people WHO DO in fact have access to E0

Lets go over it again what I need (if you guys have a better idea please speak up maybe I am doing this all wrong)

I think the person doing the testing should have a reliable consistent commute. IE your fuel economy reading for the last 15 or so tanks should not fluctuate all that much. you should have a pretty solid "trending" as to what your fuel economy is.

You fill ups should be AT LEAST 90% fill ups. if your driving a 10gallon tank you should be adding 9 gallons or more each fill up. If your driving a 20 gallon tank you should be adding 18 gallons or more per fill up if at all possible.

If your FE is reliable enough push it ever further. The more you empty the tank each time the more reliable your results.

Stop using E10 start using E0. TEST the E0 each time to verify it is indeed E0 (see below) go at LEAST 3 preferably 4 tanks (the last 2 will be the real data points) to get as much E10 out as possible and E0 in.

No additives or anything.

Then switch back to E10 for 3 or 4 tanks.

Then switch back to E0 for 4 tanks

Then back to your E10.

that should provide some very good solid data.

To test for ethanol is very easy. a small 20oz soda bottle works fine. add some WATER to the bottle (say 25%) use a sharpie and MARK the line where the water level is.

Now fill it with gasoline to say 75% or more

seal it up shake it up good and then let it settle (60-180 seconds is usually enough)

NOTE the separation line between the water and the gasoline. If its E0 there will be NO CHANGE the line will remain where you marked it.

If the line moves UP then you have alcohol present in the fuel (it moved up because the alcohol LEFT the gas and JOINED with the water. this is how I wash the gas BTW)

don't reuse the bottle more than once or twice. Ethanol is VERY aggressive toward the plastic and it will leak in short order and form many micro cracks.

Thats it. The results need to be reliable and accurate. I do not care if they JIVE with my results. I need repeatable accurate results.

I also need your car make model year and engine specs. (at some point I am GUESSING around 2004 or so the E10 stops having such a dramatic effect on the cars)

10-17-2010, 10:48 AM	#210 (permalink)
Nerys Grrr :-) Join Date: May 2008 Location: Levittown PA Posts: 800 Cherokee - '88 Jeep Cherokee 90 day: 19.44 mpg (US) Ryo-Ohki - '94 Geo Metro Xfi 90 day: 50.15 mpg (US) Vger 2 - '00 Plymouth Grand Voyager SE Ninja - '89 Geo Tracker 90 day: 30.27 mpg (US) Thanks: 12 Thanked 31 Times in 25 Posts	are you kidding? of course I would then I would flip it for hundreds or if its good enough keep it as a backup :-) remember I already have a Geo Metro. I right now average 50mpg year round. My problem is my government raping me to the tune of a lot of money just to appease the corn lobby and "pretending" its clean green and cheap and renewable when its absolutely none of the above. My GOAL is to see E10 either go away or become optional. My skill set is quite a bit higher than the "average" person (by necessity) NOW I can go out and buy a $300 metro and "fix it up" in fact if I had the time, space, and cash I would do it just so I could flip them when gas hits $4 a gallon :-) I am more interested in overall societal changes. Just because I got myself a nice gas efficient car does not change or make better the society at large problem we have here. IE I want to help everyone not "just" me (though admittedly helping everyone DOES help me) SO what happens in 25 years when its damned near impossible to find an operable fuel efficient car that does not cost $20 grand? what happens when there are no longer PLENTY of metro's Civic's etc.. road worthy? what happens when the only option is a pathetic excuse for an efficient car IE a prius or something like that that costs MANY orders of magnitude more than a metro. IE think long term here. think 5 years 10 years 20 years into the future. Can you stock pile enough "econo" cars to get you through your lifespan? will it even be legal? How many people could possibly do that? My goal is this. I want more of YOU FOLKS to perform these tests. Assuming everything is above board there will be one of two results. Either my numbers are hogwash and something strange is happening to 7 of our families cars that is all the same and I need to figure out what it is. I have driven out to colorado and back texas and back michigan and back so I know its not something "local" with the gas. OR we will find out HEY this really is hogwash and with enough data from enough people I can goto my congress critters and show them. HEY this stuff is crap its killing us economically and ecologically. When they say prove it I want to womp a huge pile of "results" onto the table and say THERE. There is your proof. will it work? I have no idea. I know they will resist because they make MONEY from this stuff. but at least it will be harder to dismiss and ignore. if ENOUGH people demand the change the change WILL happen. but so far I have gotten ZERO results. ZERO testing ZERO feedback from anyone else even from people WHO DO in fact have access to E0 Lets go over it again what I need (if you guys have a better idea please speak up maybe I am doing this all wrong) I think the person doing the testing should have a reliable consistent commute. IE your fuel economy reading for the last 15 or so tanks should not fluctuate all that much. you should have a pretty solid "trending" as to what your fuel economy is. You fill ups should be AT LEAST 90% fill ups. if your driving a 10gallon tank you should be adding 9 gallons or more each fill up. If your driving a 20 gallon tank you should be adding 18 gallons or more per fill up if at all possible. If your FE is reliable enough push it ever further. The more you empty the tank each time the more reliable your results. Stop using E10 start using E0. TEST the E0 each time to verify it is indeed E0 (see below) go at LEAST 3 preferably 4 tanks (the last 2 will be the real data points) to get as much E10 out as possible and E0 in. No additives or anything. Then switch back to E10 for 3 or 4 tanks. Then switch back to E0 for 4 tanks Then back to your E10. that should provide some very good solid data. To test for ethanol is very easy. a small 20oz soda bottle works fine. add some WATER to the bottle (say 25%) use a sharpie and MARK the line where the water level is. Now fill it with gasoline to say 75% or more seal it up shake it up good and then let it settle (60-180 seconds is usually enough) NOTE the separation line between the water and the gasoline. If its E0 there will be NO CHANGE the line will remain where you marked it. If the line moves UP then you have alcohol present in the fuel (it moved up because the alcohol LEFT the gas and JOINED with the water. this is how I wash the gas BTW) don't reuse the bottle more than once or twice. Ethanol is VERY aggressive toward the plastic and it will leak in short order and form many micro cracks. Thats it. The results need to be reliable and accurate. I do not care if they JIVE with my results. I need repeatable accurate results. I also need your car make model year and engine specs. (at some point I am GUESSING around 2004 or so the E10 stops having such a dramatic effect on the cars)